This is SSN Story Studio Network.

Lauren: This is The Biz Doctor Podcast, and I’m your host, Lauren Goldstein.

Welcome back to the show. I’m beyond excited about today’s show because I have special guests, Dr. Marcie Beigel joining us here in the studio. On today’s episode, we’re gonna talk about something that I’m so passionate about and something that I believe needs to be talked about more mental. Specifically how our mental health directly impacts our businesses and surprisingly, our family culture Bet you didn’t know families had cultures just like businesses, did you?

I sure didn’t before I met Marcie . It’s gonna be an episode you do not wanna miss, especially if you’re riding the entrepreneurial rollercoaster of emotions recently. Marcie and I are gonna talk about how to create mental wellbeing in your business, in your life as you lead and grow your business. It is something I see entrepreneurs struggle with, in which I personally have struggled with over the years.

So my hope is that today’s episode will give you some valuable tools to put in your wellbeing first, and manage the stress, anxiety, and sometimes depression that comes with being a business owner and a human being, so that we can live more full lives. Before diving into today’s episode, let me properly introduce my guests here in the studio, Dr. Marcie Beigel. For more than 20 years, Dr. Marcie has been helping organizations build the bridge between mental health and business, creating culture change with family, schools and organization, sharing her tools and strategies. With thousands, she’s helped families shift from breakdown and disconnection to happy dances and memorable moments.

Wow, that sounds amazing. , Dr. Marcie believes the best way to create changes through inspiration and experience. This means her work with both organizations and families is experiential, engaging and practical because change only matters if it lasts. Dr. Marcy earned her doctorate from Teachers College, Columbia University, and is a board certified behavior analyst, doctorate level.

She’s the best selling author of Love Your Family Again, love Your Classroom Again. She’s based in New York City that loves to. To her clients around the world. She’s been guest behavioral expert on national media, including Fox, abc, and nbc. Sharing her passion for behavior has led her to speak at organizations ranging from individual school districts to the Royal Australian Navy to TEDx Naperville.

For more information about her programs and training, visit drmarciecom. Bottom line, Dr. Marcie is gonna help us build the bridge between mental health and business because it all comes down to what’s happening between our ears. I’m so excited to have you. Welcome to the show, Marcie.  

Marcie: Thank youso much, Lauren.

I am so excited for the conversation we’re about to have.

Lauren: Me too. Me too. This is, this is such an important subject, and I knew when we met all those many months ago and connected on this subject that I just knew that I had to have you on the show, so I’m glad we are actually here recording it today. 

Marcie: Yes, and it’s one of those things that we always put them in separate boxes, but business and mental health go hand in hand.

Lauren: They do indeed. Which I, I just, I cannot wait to dive into that. And we’re actually gonna touch on three key points. Uh, the first is, you know how many of us are not taught how to manage our stress or anxiety or depression, yet it impacts everything we do. So you’re gonna share some small steps that will help listeners take care of their mental health.

We’re also gonna talk about the overlap between our work and mental wellbeing, and of course removing the stigma about talking about mental health. And I cannot wait to dive in. But the first place I really want you to start is I would love for you to share a bit more about your story and the amazing work you do with business owners so our listeners can get to know you a little bit better.

Marcie: Absolutely. So I actually really believe that I do what I do because of the journey I had with my own mental health growing. That there was a point in time when I was in high school where I really struggled and didn’t know what was wrong. And thankfully I had a very wise doctor that I was seeing at the time for physical health problems.

That’s a different story. Who said, you’re not, you’re not okay. And I said, what do you mean? And she said, you, you don’t look okay. You need help. And encouraged my parents to get me to a therapist who I saw for a year or two at this point. I don’t remember who gave me the tools that allowed me to navigate these really big feelings I was having that I didn’t even know.

I didn’t know how to navigate. Mm-hmm. . I didn’t realize that not everyone sat in their bedroom crying at the end of the school day. Like it, it never occurred to me. That there was a way to do this better until I was given the tools and then wow, the world opened. And over time and over the years, I started working with kids first and realized that what we do with our kids, we do in our businesses as well.

The way we do one thing is the way we do everything is that so many people don’t have these tools or don’t know how to do it. And that if I can share how we do this, right, I’m trained as a behaviorist. The actions connected to our feelings cuz they’re intimately connected, then everything becomes possible.

And it’s not just a white knuckle power through get it done regardless of how you feel, but feel your feelings. Use the tools and love what you. And when we do that, we have families we love, we have businesses that we love. We have lives that we love. And so I am delighted that I get to spend my life and spend my days and made my own business around helping other people love the work they do in the world, love their life, and love their family.

Lauren: Uh, I’m, I’m so excited to dive in because I, I just, I think that what you do is so needed and so necessary because, you know, speaking for myself, I grew up in a family where, you know, I got told things like, You wanna cry, I’ll give you something to cry about it. And so like, having feelings was not safe.

And you know, I’m not, I’m not saying I had terrible parents, so it’s not what I’m saying. I’m, I’m saying I had parents that learned from their parents, that learned from their parents that emotions are weakness or emotions are not things that you show. And having a southern family, you know, keeping up the side and, you know, everything’s fine and you know, you just don’t talk about these things, but then they end up spilling out.

And I think really unhelpful ways when we don’t actually process them. And um, I was actually watching a Brene Brown, her, Alice of the Heart, I don’t know if you watched it on HBO Max, but she says, um, she quoted someone, I can’t remember who she quoted, but her whole thing is, is a lot about emotion. And she said, we think.

We are human beings that do thinking and occasionally have emotions, but really what we are is emotional beings that occasionally think. And, and so I think what I love and why I’m so excited to have this conversation is mental health and emotion go hand in hand. And I feel like something I’ve been going through through my emotional intelligence leadership journey is the more you, you know, let your emotions flow, the healthier you will be.

Um, and they’re not something to be afraid of or not to, I mean, there are certain obviously times and places for them, but the more you, the more you can be friends with them, the more you’ll, you know, succeed. 

Marcie: Mm-hmm, and that’s so much good in what you just said, but that piece of there are certain times and places and that it’s, we shouldn’t be afraid of our emotions.

To me that’s key because when we know how to feel our feelings, when we know how to process what’s been going on in our emotional place, then it’s easy to wait. It’s easy to say, I’m in a meeting, my client is being horrible. I want to rip their head off, but I’m gonna stay poised and I’m gonna have the  conversation that needs to be had and stay professional.

And then I’m gonna go tonight and take a kickbox in class and get at all my rage . But when we don’t, when we don’t know how to do that, when we haven’t done the work, when we don’t have any tools, that’s when we end up blowing up at our client, losing the deal, having problems at work because we just messed everything up.

Not just for ourselves, but for our company. Mm-hmm. . And things come out sideways when we don’t deal with it. Yeah. So it’s so important that we start talking about it cuz it’s not just, oh yeah, that’s a thing we deal with later. But it impacts every conversation we have, every interaction that goes on. If you need to have more grace, if you need to figure out how to feel more confident in that meeting to just be like, oh yes, we can do this.

And then no, on the back end you’ll figure it out. Mm-hmm. , all of that is emotional intelligence. Mm-hmm. having, having employees running a business where people feel wanted and cared for and valued, which we know is how you retain employees. It’s, it’s, it’s how you retain clients when they feel connected to you.

That’s all emotional intelligence. Mm-hmm. . So without these skills which have been like behind closed doors and as you said, you know, our parents generation and for many currently it’s a taboo subject, but it’s not cuz we’re all living it all the time. 

Lauren: I think that’s such an important point about, you know, emotions being taboo and we really don’t talk about it.

And I know that, you know, for so many, you know, businesses is this thing that doesn’t have emotion when in reality, Like it’s humans doing business with humans. And so if we cut out the emotional component and we, and we just make it this very surgical thing, then that’s, that’s not gonna be successful.

And, you know, I look to little kids. I love watching little kids because it’s absolutely mortifying when they have a meltdown in public and we’re just like, oh my God, can you, like, can you please get your stuff together? Like people are looking, but then two minutes later they’re totally fine and they’re laughing.

And I think we can learn a lot from kids because they don’t stuff emotions like us as adults. Like somewhere along the lines, we were told to stop, stop being emotional, stopped all this stuff. But in reality, like the more you process it, the faster you process it, the faster you can actually move forward.

And so I think that’s, that’s a lot about what you were talking about just now where. Where it impacts everything if you don’t actually, if you’re not aware of it.

Marcie: Absolutely. And I love the analogy to kids because I have two big pieces of my business. One is with kids and families, and one is businesses and organizations.

Exactly. For that reason. And the truth is, kids having meltdowns is part of their learning, is part of their process. And it can be really overwhelming to watch a kid scream their head off and kick and just have all it’s messy. It’s just messy at breakdown like that. And they don’t know what else to do with those big feelings.

And because it makes us, the grownups, grownups uncomfortable to see all of that and because it’s not always the appropriate time and place, the answer really is teaching them how to have those big feelings. What can we do? What can we do physically with our body, with our words, to either create a change so we don’t feel that way.

Or to move all of that energy in our body. You’re angry. Can we jump it out? Cuz if you’re three, jumping it out is so much better than falling to the floor . And we move it success successively from there. Right? So as adults, it’s that same thing. We weren’t taught when we were three what to do in those big giant meltdowns.

And so now it sometimes still happens, but when we’re adults, we’re less likely to fall apart and have a tantrum. It more shows up like anxiety or depression because that is a more acceptable way to have those emotions. And because it’s been buried layer upon layer, upon layer, upon layer of all of these moments that we didn’t digest, now we have moments where we just don’t wanna get outta bed where we think everybody is judging us, where we’re worried we’re gonna be fired tomorrow, every day for three years.

Mm-hmm. . And that stress is not good for us to live in. Yep, we do. And we’d rather live there than talk about our mental health. Like, come on now, , come on, let’s like have the conversation. Let’s do the hard thing. Just like we teach three year olds to do the hard thing and ask their friend to give their toy back.

Lauren: I, I think there’s so many things that play here. I mean, one, I don’t, I don’t know about you, but you know, the comparison game as entrepreneurs, like there are days when I’m like, wow, I feel like I’m doing all the things and, you know, why are we not here or there? And comparing, especially with social media, like let’s, that could be a whole nother podcast episode about social media, of mental health, but like marrying my behind the scenes of my business to their highlight reel and just, and seeing like how that makes the anxiety or the depression creep in and what I call the emotional, um, the entrepreneur of roller coaster of emotions.

Um, So I’m, I’m right there. I’m right there with you. 

Marcie: Yeah. And no one is doing the same journey we are. Even, even if we think we are, we’re all entrepreneurs. We’re all trying to build a great business. We’re all trying to impact the world in our unique way. And somewhere along the line, we have stopped being taught to celebrate someone else’s successes and instead use it as a measure of our failure.

And that’s not the deal. And it’s super interesting because in my, in my own journey, I learn so many things about men, emotional intelligence, mental intelligence through my business that I then go, oh, right, okay. And then I get the emotional lesson. Mm-hmm. . But the idea of showing up and celebrating somebody else.

We’re taught scarcity, we’re taught that there’s not enough and especially when you see it on social media, we’ll like, like their post and then be like, I can’t believe why are they, and be all grumpy about it, rather than genuinely celebrating them, liking it on social media, sending them a message and being like, Hey, that’s amazing.

Yeah. And what I have found, the more moments I have been able to lift myself up and genuinely be happy and celebrate a friend, a colleague, a person I aspire to know mm-hmm. , and share with them how inspired I am by their work. The more I actually find inspiration in my work. It’s this really amazing thing of good be gets good.

And it’s true. Like, you know, we’ve all heard the law of attraction and all of that woo woo, and we think it’s woo, but it’s not. When we show up and see good in the world, we realize it’s possible for us to do it ourselves. When we realize it’s possible for us to do it ourselves, it makes it so much more likely that we are gonna get up and go do it.

If you can, I can. Let’s go. Let’s do it together. Yes. 

Lauren: I love that. I love that. Especially because if you think about how the brain works, it’s just, it’s like a giant radio that you just gotta tune it into the right station. And I talk about this a lot with my clients when we’re talking about leadership or building in the right team.

Like it doesn’t matter if you like jazz. If jazz is not your superpower, you’re gonna feel weird trying to dance to jazz. So maybe, maybe you’re country music, maybe you’re heavy metal, like it doesn’t matter. But when you tune your brain into. I don’t know if I wanna say positive or negative, but the things that serve you.

Possibilities. Possibilities. Then you just have this like much different perspective. Cuz nobody wants to be eor . Like nobody wants to be that person that brings people down. Which I think is another reason why we struggle talking about it. Cause we’re like, oh, we don’t wanna like rain on somebody’s braid or talk about it.

But I think there’s a difference between asking for support and saying, I’m really struggling in this moment, versus living in, you know, the excuses or the complaining instead of the possibility. So I’d love to hear a little bit more about what you think about that. 

Marcie: Yeah. So we connect with people by talking, right?

Spending time together, sharing stories. This has always been how humans connect. And when we’re having a hard time talking about it is important because that’s part of how we process. You can’t solve a problem without problem solving. You can’t think yourself out of an emotional problem without actually having that conversation.

And there’s a big difference between talking to problem solve and process and sitting in the tornado of your feelings. Now we all have moments where we just need to like then to get it out, but at some point we have to decide to stop and move forward. Mm. And that is the place where it is productive.

We’ve all known that person, whether it’s at work or in our personal life, who just always has a problem. It always sound the same. The details change, but nothing ever gets better in that person’s life. Yep. That is not good mental health practice. That is a person who sees the world as a problem, but good mental health says, I’m really having a hard time and I need someone to listen to me.

Mm-hmm. . And if it’s too much for a friend, that’s why they’re a therapist, because that is their job. If, if you need tools, we need to go to the places where there are tools, and it’s not necessarily your friends, but your friends can help you problem solve. They can sympathize and empathize. They can allow you to feel human as opposed to crazy because we are taught that these challenges are crazy.

Mm-hmm. , but they’re not, they’re just human. And when you start being brave enough to say, I feel really alone and isolated, I’m, I’m really scared about what’s gonna happen if I lose my  job because I have a mortgage payment. Mm-hmm. , I don’t know what’s wrong with me, but I don’t wanna get outta bed. Yeah.

And when you say that to someone and they say, I’ve been there, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve felt that. This helped me get through it. This changed that for me. You’re not alone and we’ll help you figure it out. If anything happens, all of a sudden there’s more ability to breathe, there’s more space, there’s there’s more possibility.

Mm-hmm. . And the key is to get to the place where you can put tools in place where you know what those tools are, and one of them is not feeling alone. It’s one of the number one mental health tools, especially when you’re in crisis, which is usually that first phrase when you haven’t talked to anybody about it, and just feel all the feelings or have just gone through something big and hard, knowing that you’re not alone.

Having someone there to sit with you is life changing. Mm-hmm. . So let the people in your life be there for you. 

Lauren: Oh, there’s so much juiciness in there, and I, I heard somebody say this to me once, um, because. I don’t know about you, but you know, I like to be a strong, independent person who’s like, you know, it’s okay.

I don’t wanna weight you down. And I, I don’t like, I think a lot of our society sometimes has learned how to commiserate on things that aren’t working instead of celebrating things that are, so I try to really, you know, celebrate things that are working. But, but he said to me, he said, you know, you’re robbing people of the ability to support you because you’re not asking for support.

And like, one of the greatest gifts we can give each other is supporting each other and having that conversation. And I was like, Wait, so you’re telling me that, I’m like, no, I’m trying not to be selfish here, but I’m actually being selfish. What? And it just, it broke my brain and gave me a totally different perspective on asking for and receiving support, which I think is something, especially as um, women business owners, I think we have a lot of work to do about receiving support because, you know, we don’t wanna be judged or perceived as weak or all, all the things that we think people might be thinking.

And so I love what you said about, you know, it’s like the first step is like talking about it and getting out of this, this echo chamber. And I think that is sometimes the hardest first step. And honestly, why? I love working with my clients in our advisory program because it’s lonely in the top, and sometimes you just need to have that person that’s not, that doesn’t know your, like, knows your team, but like isn’t in your team, like, isn’t in your family like that unbiased third party.

So this is a shameless plug of if you don’t have a therapist or a business consultant or advisor, go get yourself one, because I’ve had, I’ve had a therapist for years and business coaches and there’s, there’s just something special about that safe space that you know, that you can say some crazy stuff and it’s gonna be totally fine.

Marcie: Okay. That is not a shameless plug. This is exactly why we’re having this conversation. . We need to be able to boldly say, if you don’t have someone to talk to and you are struggling, find the right person. Mm-hmm. . And that doesn’t just mean decide whether it’s a therapist or a business coach, or an advisory board.

It doesn’t just matter the the type of support, but who mm-hmm. , when pe, when parents call me for my therapy practice, they’ve also called four or five or six other people because I might not be the right answer for them. Yeah. You have to find the right match, the right fit. So if you’ve done therapy once for three sessions and it didn’t work for you, maybe you were with the wrong therapist.

Yeah. So no shameless plug there. Really important recommendation because that’s a giant tool to go. Yeah. Find someone, find a group. There’s so many ways to do it. The other thing that you said that I love is whoever you were having that conversation with, is brilliant because, and as you said, as women business owners, we wanna help everyone.

You have a problem. I’m there yesterday. You need, you need to talk about it. I’m ready. It’s the end of my day. It’s nine o’clock. I got nothing left. But yeah, I’ll get on the phone with you, . We’re willing to give and give and give, and it makes us feel good. Yet when we need to ask for help, we feel ashamed.

We feel embarrassed, we feel horrible, and we’d rather crawl under a rock and fail. And fail hard than ask for help. Mm-hmm. , that’s wrong. That’s so wrong. That’s wrong. And yes, we have to have clarity of boundaries of who we’re asking for what and how they might respond. Aka. Mm-hmm. . Why a therapist or a business coach or an advisor might be a great person cuz they’re there just to listen.

Mm-hmm. . But if you are the person who is willing to say yes to any friend, any colleague that needs help, then also be willing to ask them for help because they also want to provide, 

Lauren: yes, a phrase I’ve mentioned on previous podcasts, but a phrase that  changed my life was, what do you need from me in this moment?

Do you need my, like, do you need me to listen or do you need me to, to support or problem solve? Because I found that a lot of conflict, or dare I say frustrations with my own mental health after conversations resulted in me thinking they needed me to like fix something or problem solve, when really they just wanted to vent.

Um, and so I think it’s a constant, I don’t know, evolution for us women business owners to. Recognize that boundaries are mental health. Yes. And I, I know you guys can’t see this. We can see each other in studio and she’s . I have dancing, she’s dancing up behind her microphone. But, but there is, there’s this really interesting thing that I sometimes see with my clients where they feel like if they have boundaries with their team or their family, that they’re not being supportive or they’re being.

um, or any other adjective. And actually what I find is when you are able to put up those boundaries, you suddenly have a fuller cup, you’re able to be a better leader, you have better communication. And here’s a really funny side effect, is you stop enabling your team and you in fact allow them. She’s dancing again, y’all

You allow them to start being more autonomous, which is a little scary for our business owners who are in the thick of it. But I would love for you to talk more about, you know, this idea that if we have boundaries that somehow, you know, it’s, it’s creating this opposite effect, like it’s creating disconnection and on all these things when I think in reality it’s actually one of the most healthy things we can do.

Marcie: Mm-hmm. , I love some boundaries. They are great. We should all dance and have parties around boundaries. Cause the truth is, When you don’t have boundaries, you do, they just way overrun your capacity. You have some line where you’re like, I’m now dead asleep and can’t give you thing. Anything else? So two things that you said that I loved.

One is having boundaries empowers your staff. There are so many businesses that I’ve worked on, that I’ve worked with, that I’ve worked near where the leadership is exhausted. They feel like their team doesn’t do anything without their say so, without their approval. Without their, go ahead, without the check-in.

And they’re like, what is that? Well, lo and behold, every time it is that the staff is scared to take a step because leadership is always micromanaging. Mm-hmm. . When we have boundaries and we say, go, knowing that our staff may fail and have to redo it, which is okay. or may do it differently than us, which is also okay.

Mm-hmm. , that that creates independence. That creates them being able to go do their job and us supervise and lead the way we should. Mm-hmm. all day long. If you are feeling that way, you need to check what are you doing? How are you participating in the fact that your staff won’t do anything on their own because it’s always a two-way street.

Yes. And that comes back to you as a leader being willing to let go of control. Hmm. And taking that breath and creating space because that is part of your emotional intelligence work. In order to grow your business, you cannot do everything like the you did when you started it, which is actually what you want.

And it means it won’t be exactly as you wanted it, but it will be amazing and impactful and beautiful. So let people go do their, their magic. Let them do it. Yeah. 

Lauren: Yeah. That shift from Chief Everything officer to Visionary CEO is, is I see a lot of times like the biggest step a business owner can make.

And it really presents really funny symptoms that obviously you and I can see from a mile away, but they’re, they’re in it. You can’t read the label from the bottle, but one of those symptoms is, I see. I, I see. Speaking of control, I  see a lot of times the control actually gets amplified. The more they want out, the more control they’re like trying to hold onto.

Um, and I actually did a post on social media a few weeks back that basically. You know, I think one of these, these hurdles to giving up control, which comes back to mental health, is the question of, if I’m not in my business every day and I’m not needed at the level that I’m needed right now,  who the heck am I?

Lauren: Like, oh my. I don’t like what is my value? And I think that this value for effort thing that we have created in America, and I think throughout the world, but mostly in America, is really impacting our mental health because we’re like, oh, we’re feeling kind of crappy about ourselves. Probably should work harder.

Marcie: Yes. That’s not right. It’s not right. Mm-hmm. like what? No. And as you said, it’s connected to our worth. Mm-hmm. , I am. I am worth having. Seven figure business. If I work my tail off, I am worthy of having this impact in the world because I never sleep anymore. But I am worthy to go sit on the beach and have a vacation for three days.

All of a sudden hit something inside of us where we go, well, I’m not worthy. I better call and check in and make sure everything’s okay. And that the business didn’t burn down while I was gone. No, you’re worthy. Mm-hmm. . But that behavior, those actions and leadership go back to you doing your mental health work to know that you are worthy because you built it, because you led the company to that place, but mostly you’re worthy because you’re a human.

And when we can get to a place where our worth is not tied to our business, we’re willing to take bigger risks to make bigger impact. Because if we fail, it doesn’t mean that we as a human have failed. 

Lauren: Yes, we detach. Let’s go there. Yeah, let’s go there. . Let’s go and follow that thread of if I tried this thing in my business, if I hire this new person, we launch this new thing.

If we expand and I fail, that means I’m a failure. Let’s talk about that cuz that is a very real thought that goes through a lot of business owners. 

Marcie: Mm-hmm. , I’ve been there, and it gets tied to who am I to do that? Who am I to be listened to? Who am I to say that, to make that, to impact that? Mm-hmm. , who aren’t you?

Right? And if not you, then who? And if you have the dream, and you have the passion, and you have the vision, then go do. And we think that failure is the end. That if we hire this person and it doesn’t work, we are a horrible person. We are a failure, and our business is a failure. Yep. Well, if you’re running a business and it is how you pay your rent and other people pay their rent and you keep a roof over your head and food on the table, well then you have to take calculated intelligent risks.

Mm-hmm. , but take the risk because the only time failure is really failure is if you didn’t learn something. So hire the person, see how how it goes. It might be a fabulous disaster. You still have a roof over your head, you still have some clients. Not everything is, you’re not living in a cave eating, you know, berries that you for.

Cool. Great. Then try again. What did you learn from hiring that person? What didn’t work well? Was it about your hiring process? Was it about the role you thought you were filling? Was it about your lack of clarity? I will tell you the first time I hired anyone for my business, I was like, I need help. I, uh, dunno.

With what? Just help, please. And like found some lovely person who was willing to help me figure out what that was. Mm-hmm. , it lasted about six months and then I was like, okay, right. You’re not the right person that I need to be doing this thing, but now I know what it is. Yes. And that’s, you gotta be willing to take that risk.

So either find someone who will gently help you find it or do it and fail miserably. I have hired other people and failed miserably because it just wasn’t the right match and I didn’t know the right questions to ask and I, I was growing and, and didn’t know how. So I tried something, it didn’t work, but I learned so it’s okay and I could try again.

Lauren: Yes. I love that they say you want more success, fail faster. Yes. Which, you know, makes my recovering perfectionist get triggered. . Mm-hmm. . But I think, you know, there’s a really great analogy that I use with my clients about building a house and like. You put in the plumbing and the electricity first you have to actually, like, you don’t just like put up the drywall and the pain and decorate the whole house and then test out the plumbing and electricity.

Like you do it when the walls are open, which is like a very great analogy about we launch stuff when we’re vulnerable and our walls are open and we’re like, well, I don’t know if this is gonna work. Or we hire somebody when we’re, you know, on the cusp and we’re like really trying to figure it out. Um, and you know, luckily the work that I do with clients is to kind of mitigate that mis-hire because you actually more thoughtfully think about it and you get the clarity of the role.

But it still happens. You know, you still do the best you can and it still doesn’t work. And that’s why I love postmortems. Like what worked, what didn’t work? What can we learn? Like, heck, I do a postmortem on Thanksgiving, , like, what went really well? What didn’t, what are we gonna do next year? Um, like maybe we’ll bake the pies the day before instead of the day off.

Like, what was I thinking? . Yep. Yep. So I love this. 

Marcie: And the other piece of it is that as business owners, we think that we have to learn everything in our business, right? And I share that I often learn things in my business and then take it into the rest of my life. But we can do it the other way. If you are a recovering perfectionism perfectionist or still a perfect.

Where are there things that you could do slightly off to your normal routine and see that it works? Like, could you buy a piece of clothing in a color that you never wear and see if you wear it? Can you not? Do all of the dishes believe a cup in the sink overnight? Like, can you, can you leave your shoes by a different door than the front door of your house?

Like, can you do little things that feel off? Don’t make your bed one day and realize that when you do these things, the house didn’t burn down. Mm-hmm, you are okay. Everything is still fine. And when we can learn those lessons in our everyday life, it then becomes easier to apply them in these really big moments.

Lauren: I love that baby steps. I mean, I remember when I was really, I was really working on my perfectionism. I used, so I write handwritten, thank you. Still, I’m probably one of the only people on the planet that still does this. And I would, if I made a spelling mistake, I would start over. And so like to break through my perfectionist.

Marcie: I know you guys maybe, maybe I, I need a little, we could do some work on that. Just we could, right. You know, I work with businesses, you hear , but 

Lauren: what I started doing is just being like, okay, you spelled a word wrong or you like, can’t read that word. Just cross it off, keep going. And I mean, this was years ago, but like that little, I know it sounds so trivial, but that little trivial thing to break.

This perfectionism actually had ripple effects everywhere, because then I became more gracious with people making mistakes. I became more gracious with myself making mistakes with my team, and it was really, you’re dancing again. I wish you guys could see this. It’s so funny. Um, she’s a great dancer, . Um, but it’s really fun.

I think this is the, the thing that I wanna like really dial, dial in or take it home, is when you start embracing your imperfection, when you start talking about your mental health, when you start saying, whew, guys, like, I’m not okay. Like, I know for, for me, well, and I think every business owner, the times of roa were really hard.

You know, I was trying to keep two businesses open, keeping people employed, keeping customers happy, trying not to like go down the rabbit hole of. All the things. But what’s really interesting is to go back to your point from many minutes before, like taking that first step and having a conversation.

You’re suddenly like, oh, I’m not the only one that’s having this challenge, or I’m not the only one that’s feeling this way. Cuz I think, again, as entrepreneurs, we sometimes get so lonely at the top because I mean, if you’re in a, in a great group of other entrepreneurs, that’s amazing. That’s why I think masterminds are so helpful or therapists like, but not everybody has that.

But you do have friends that you can say, listen, I know you don’t own a business, but can I just tell you about what I’m struggling with right now? Yes. 

Marcie: All of that was brilliant and yes, more of that for everyone doing, and part of why I was dancing was because the idea that when you were writing handwritten notes, which I love by the way, , thank you.

You now just cross it out and keep going. Not only is that working on your own perfectionism, but it’s allowing other people to be human. It’s showing other people who look at you and go, oh my gosh, you are the successful entrepreneur who’s doing so many things and you have everything together and you made a mistake.

Wait, then I can make mistakes. Oh, wait, now that I, I can make mistakes and still be just as successful. That permission to let other people see your vulnerability allows them to be vulnerable, right? Mm-hmm. and I, I often speak at, at big conferences or for trainings and companies and. Recently, one of the trainings I was at, it was a two day conference that people had traveled to and I was like, anyone else have a hard time getting here?

And I talked about how the night before I was supposed to fly out for this training, I was supposed to like pick up food on my way home and travel and go to sleep early, so I’d be real rested and all of that. And I ate a bag of salt and vinegar potato chips because I was so tired from my day of work that on my way home, I couldn’t figure out what to eat.

I couldn’t make a decision. I then sat on my couch and played solitaire on my phone for an hour until the notice of it is Your bedtime came up. And then I started packing. Mm-hmm. because I was exhausted and I was depleted. And it was only once I had to that I could get up. The most amazing thing happened was that because I was willing to say, I ate potato chips for dinner and sometimes just don’t have it in me to take care of myself.

When we did exercises about self care, about active listening, about taking time for yourself, the reflections that came back were outstanding. They were remarkable. Mm-hmm. I, by leading the conversation, people who never met me, trusted me as the person with the microphone to share with an entire room of 500 people that they cried in an active listening exercise and felt like they had a new best friend because someone listened to them for three minutes.

Yeah. It is outrageous what happens when we are willing to be vulnerable and go first, but we have to do our work in order to do that. We 

Lauren: absolutely do, and I think that that. You know, we talk , Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, you know, talks about food and shelter and water. I think one of the like, yes, obviously those things are very important, but one of the most essential human needs is to feel connected and heard.

And I can tell you that through my 11 plus years of doing this, like most team problems and leadership problems come with somebody’s not feeling connected or not feeling heard. And like, so if you can do the work and you can, how can I say this? You can recognize that it’s not personal. Like everyone is having their own crap sandwich that day.

Mm-hmm. . And it’s like whatever they’re dealing with is different for whatever you’re dealing with. And generally whatever has happened in that interaction has nothing to do with you. And I think that that’s like a really big thing that we forget because it’s so easy for us to take things personally.

Marcie: It’s never about you. I I love this conversation so much. Cause it’s never about you. And it’s really, really hard to remember that when you’re, when you’re sitting with someone who is angry and apparently angry at you for something specifically that you did. And if you can figure out to not fight back, what we then do most times, especially if we have not done our emotional work, is we start to defend.

But I did, but that’s not, and it’s your fault. And we get into this, he said, she said, or he said, he said, or she said. She said, or they said, they said, and we fight. But what would it be like? Or just instead, next time try. Wait, can you explain that to me? Explain to me your experience and really try not to make yourself look good, not to change their story, to just understand where they are coming from and then have a genuine response.

Now, when I say genuine response in my dream world, you’re like, I can see how you felt that way, and I’m so sorry that was your experience. But if that’s not how you feel after hearing their story, don’t say that , because authenticity is more important than an apology. But say, wow, that’s, I’m surprised to hear this.

I had a completely different experience and at another time I wanna tell you about my vert version. Mm-hmm. , just try to understand, don’t  fight about it. And that is not the moment to also try to repair it. That is the moment to try to repair that person as a human. Because when people are angry, you can’t make ways.

So let the heat go and make an appointment for the next day or the next week, depending on who it is and how critical the situation is of let’s revisit to figure out what we’re gonna do next. And when you get to that meeting, don’t revisit why they were horrible and that they can’t be doing that. And it’s ridiculous.

Okay, now that we’re here, how do we move forward? Cause no one wants to revisit the moment that they lost it, that they were less than graceful, where they didn’t keep their cool. Even if they’re a person who knows that they do that. Like don’t bring up somebody’s worst moment. How are we gonna move forward from here?

What are we gonna do next time? How do we solve this problem? Mm-hmm. But you can only solve problems when people’s minds are open to the possibility. 

Lauren: Yes. And they’re not emotionally charged from the moment. Yes. Which I think is key. Do y’all see why she’s so good at what she does? And also working with families?

And I, I mean, I wanna touch on this. I, we should probably do another whole podcast about family culture. 

Marcie: I’m totally available for that. 

Lauren: I love it. Let us know if you guys want us to do part two of family culture, but I think what you touched on just now is a really key component of  family harmony because when we’re in family, and so, and the reason I I bring this up is cuz our businesses are our families.

Like they’re our babies. And so we, I think there’s a lot, a lot to parallel between your business and your family, but especially in your actual family, when you are able to take these tools of mental health and communication. And not be, cuz I remember many times, you know, just being like, well you said this and then, and then you’re, you’re like arguing and you’re going back and forth and like, no, everybody just feels like poo afterwards.

And you’re like, well, like what do we actually accomplish? Whereas what you just explained is like diffusing the situation just by letting somebody be heard. And I think that lesson, like I wanna know a little bit more about family culture and that lesson and how, cuz I see the correlation of how that, that line and lesson is going to, you know, parlay really well into business conversations with your team.

Marcie: Some of it is that it’s, it’s exactly the same, right? So what I just talked about with businesses and can you not take it personally and can you just say, let me hear it from your perspective. Imagine as a parent saying that to your child. Just tell me what you heard. Tell me what’s going on. Tell me what you experienced.

Okay, interesting. Now let’s go get ready for dinner. You, there’s, you don’t have to fix it cuz the truth is just like with business, that person who is upset, it’s not about the thing they’re upset about. Mm-hmm. . Cause it’s never about the thing. Like yes there are contracts and things to negotiate in details of things to be worked out, but most of the time that’s not the sticking point.

Even when it comes to money, that’s not the sticking point. Same exact thing happens with your family. It’s not about the thing that your child is having a meltdown over. It is that they are emotionally overwhelmed and you’ve seen it because there have been some moments where they will totally go brush their teeth without a problem.

And other times where it’s a half hour tantrum and you’re like, what is the difference, ? It’s not about brushing the teeth. Mm. And so a lot of the work I do is very behaviorally walking parents through what are the tools to bring in that harmony to your family. I talk about myself as a family culture expert now because it is about shifting the culture of your family.

It is not about every moment being full of rainbows and unicorns and sparkles, cuz that’s not realistic. There are gonna be bumps, there are gonna be hard moments because living with other people is complicated. Mm-hmm. . But if you’re willing to go through it, you get to have more beautiful moments. How do you sit down and have a fun family dinner?

How do you get out of the house in the morning without people screaming? It’s more about the culture, the environment, the feeling of your home that will then dictate those moments of behavior. Mm-hmm. , if your kids scream and you scream back, that’s your culture. Mm-hmm. , we can talk about the details of getting dressed versus brushing teeth versus getting homework done, cuz those are the details of that.

But it’s really about getting around that and looking at. How do we communicate, how do we interact? How do we talk about mental health? When I, as the parent, I’m struggling, or you as the child are struggling? Cuz the truth is, most parents don’t talk to their kids about how they’re feeling. We’re told that we’re not supposed to, we’re not supposed to show our kids when we fail.

We would never leave a note for our kids with a crossed out word on it. . But why not? When our kids see that we are imperfect, it allows them to be imperfect. When we show our kids that we are learning, it gives them permission to learn. When we show them that we can have grace and be angry, they learn to have grace and be angry.

Mm-hmm. , it’s not all or nothing, it’s both And. 

Lauren: Oh gosh, so much goodness. I mean, I honestly could probably talk to you about this for another I hours. We could probably have, uh, it’s what a Joe ro Joe Rogan length aren’t his episodes like, I don’t know. I, I like never listened, but I think they’re like three hours later,

Marcie: We could, we don’t, and I it would be delightful every minute. But that is not what your listeners expect from these conversations.

Lauren: I know. They, they normally get like little 15 minute [00:50:00] golden nuggets as I call them. So, um, I wanna, I wanna start wrapping us up and I know we’ve covered a lot. So tell me, tell me, are there any last nuggets that you wanna give, um, our listeners that you, that we didn’t cover that you were like, oh, I really wanna say this, and of course I want you to share how it’s best for them to get in touch with you.

Cause I know. Many people will after this  just Oh, so juicy. I mean, I’m doing dancing moving this over here too. 

Marcie: Yeah, for sure. Um, I think I have two things that I wanna make sure I share. One is that all behavior can change. So we are, we are kind of taught that people are who they are and you can’t ta teach a new dog old tricks.

You can’t teach an old dog new tricks. That’s the phrase. That’s the phrase. And that’s simply not true. I have watched people of all ages, of all sizes, businesses of all sizes and generations change because they wanted it. Mm-hmm. . And so when there is motivation and inspiration, there is always a way to do it.

So whether it is that you personally are struggling with something, or your company is struggling with something, or your family is struggling with something, please do not believe that that is just how it. Mm. It’s not true. And if you want it to be better, if you want it to be happier, if you want it to be bigger, if you want it to be something that it’s not, there is a way to get there.

And I am happy to help you find that way. If I am not the person, please go find the person. That is because Lauren is one of those other people who can help you get there. There is a whole world of possibilities, but know that it is possible. That’s one. The second is there is no right way to do it.

There’s often this in the world of mental health, the my friend went to this therapist and it helped, or my friend went to this retreat and it helped them. Or my friend was depressed and did this exercise, and we then try it and it doesn’t work for us and we get overwhelmed. Or we used to meditate and now we try and it just doesn’t feel right and it’s not working.

That doesn’t mean that you’re broken. That doesn’t mean that that tool is garbage. It means that you need something different in this moment. So when you need something new, find the thing that’s right for you. Don’t do it the right way. Do it your way. And in this world where we are in community and relying on others to teach us and guide us, it is very easy to say, but the expert said I should do it this way.

Okay, well the expert said you should do it this way. You tried it and you realize that if you add this flare to it, it works for you. So put your own flare on your mental health, on the tools that work for you and, and find what’s right. Because there is always a way to make a change. See how those two are connected?

Just do it your way. 

Lauren: Oh, I love that. Yes. I love that. Mm-hmm. . Um, I think I’m just gonna add this one thing that actually really helped me because you and I bonded. Um, you guys don’t know this, but I’m gonna, I’m gonna share. We bonded around, um, Trying to burn down our business . And one of us, actually both of us did it in some fashion and then Oh yeah.

Had to, you know, had to rise like Phoenix’s out of the ashes. 

And we both did. But something that, you know, in the 2.0 version that I did very intentionally, which, which made all the difference that honestly helped me double my business was I took a full weekend day off. So I picked Saturday because it’s like at the day to like, it’s right off the weekend.

A lot of stuff just happened Saturday night. I felt like I didn’t miss out on a lot. And I would sometimes like unplug completely, like turn off  my phone, turn off my computer, just read a book, maybe take and like sleep in, which I know is so taboo, but. To your point, find what works for you. That worked for me and it was so helpful and it also gave up permission to my team to take time off.

Like I’m a big proponent of like, take time. We have great work life balance, but like one of the biggest things for mental health is slow down. Mm-hmm. Yep Um, okay. So how can people connect with you? What’s the best way for them to get more of this juicy goodness? Uh, the best place to 

Marcie: find me is my website, which is drmarcy.com.

If you want more parenting advice, I would go to my YouTube channel. Hmm. Which is Dr. Marcie Beigel. I love that. Type it into to YouTube and I’ll be. 

Lauren: Okay. And then one last question. I’ve started asking all my guests, what is a book that you think every entrepreneur needs to read and why?

Marcie: I love this question, I was not prepared for it, but what pops into my head first, which, you know, I, I trust that intuition is the four agreements. Yes. The four agreements. I, I think that every person should read it. I think that if we all did our best to live our lives that way, that we would, we would be happier, more connected people.

And it’s this short book that is like, you know, you could read it in an afternoon, but it’s literally just four concepts of how to live your life that are fascinating. 

Lauren: I love that. 100% agree. It’s actually right above my computer. It is always within li like my line of sight. Um, it is, you could absolutely read it in an hour, but the four agreements are be impeccable with your word.

We talked about this second one, don’t take anything personally. Don’t make assumptions, which you guys have heard me say over and over again. You know, assumptions, make a ass outta you and me. And also unshared expectations are nothing more than premeditated resentments. And then always do your best, which I think we could do a whole nother podcast on.

Mm-hmm. , it’s your best changes from day to day. 

Marcie: So, so true. And the first one is one of the three rules I use to change all behavior. That you have to mean what you say. Mm-hmm. . Cause when we don’t, whether it’s with kids or with your company. Trust is broken even when nobody knows, but we like feel it. It’s, it’s huge.

It is ginormous. It is, yes. Just, you know, focus on that one and it’ll change your life. 

Lauren: Yeah. Being out of integrity, like you said, if nobody, even if nobody knows, like internally, it causes cognitive dissonance. And actually when I, when I was going through this emotional intelligence leadership program, we had to acknowledge our broken agreements.

So like, if we said we were gonna be there at three o’clock and we got there at 3 0 1, we would say, I acknowledge my broken agreement to be here at three o’clock. What you can expect from me moving forward is to be early, or whatever it was. And it was radical responsibility.  So, yeah. I, I can see how that changes.

Marcie: Love that . Um, with parents, one of the things that happens all the time is that they’ll put their child to bed and then they’ll be, I’ll come check on you in a few minutes. They know their child is gonna go to sleep and fall asleep. And so they never go and check on them. And it’s one of those moments that I’m like, no, no, no.

Even though they’re asleep, they’re, they know, their system knows because they’re like in that half awake, half asleep place. You have to walk back in that room or don’t say it like, simply just don’t say it. And there’s so much that we say that we just simply don’t need to say in moments like that. Yeah.

Where we could just say, goodnight my love, I’ll see you in the morning. And, and that can be that. Um, yeah. And I love that example because it feels so concrete to me in so many ways that we do it that are super nuanced. Yeah. 

Lauren: Oh, I love this. I love this. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. I just, this has been so wonderful and I am definitely gonna get you back for.

A second iteration of this, cuz I know we could talk about this forever. Um, but that’s it for this week’s episode. Everyone, thank you so much for listening in. It’s because of listeners like you that we create these episodes. So I’d love to hear from you and your biggest takeaways. So make sure that you’re following along.

Tag me on Instagram at its Lauren Goldstein or LinkedIn or wherever you hang out on the. Thanks again for listening, and we’ll see you next time.

Thanks for listening to The Biz Doctor Podcast. You’re probably wondering what your next steps are. Hmm. So here are some options for you no matter what. Head to the show notes or to my website at goldenkeypartnership.com. That’s where you’ll find links to do at Diagnostic Deep Dive with me and my team. This deep dive will help us identify what is really holding you and your business back for more profitability, impact, and sustainable growth.

After that. Register for our next workshop. Ooh, I host them often, and it’s a great way to interact with me in a virtual room and get your questions answered. All of that info is on our website at goldenkeypartnership.com.

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