The 25x Productivity System With Guest Expert Thanh Pham

Lauren: Welcome to The Biz Doctor Podcast, my love letter to business owners the world over. I’m your host, Lauren Goldstein, award-winning business consultant and advisor who’s fondly nicknamed The Business Doctor by my clients. My clients call me The Business Doctor because I help business owners who are  burning the candle at both ends, diagnose what is actually keeping them stuck in and buried under the day-to-day of their business, and then formulate a business treatment plan to help them adjust their business and team to fit them.

And most importantly, support them in having what I call true entrepreneurial freedom. If you’re ready to look at your business in a different lens and elevate yourself out of the business operator in the trenches 24 7 to visionary business owner and leader who can take a breath vacation and have more fun making an impact with your business.

Then grab your favorite beverage and your earbuds, and let’s dive into our latest episode.

If you’re like most business owners, you spend a lot of time being busy, but not necessarily productive, which leads to frustration and wasted time putting out fires all day. We’ve all been there trying to figure out how to be more productive, efficient, and make real progress in our business instead of playing whack-a-mole on the daily.

Live great news. Today’s episode with productivity expert ThanhFam is going to change the way you look at productivity as he shares simple, yet effective ways to help you increase productivity, efficiency and better time management so you can get farther faster. You’ll definitely wanna stick around to the end because Tan’s going to share his 25 x productivity system, which is a real game changer.

Welcome back to The Biz Doctor Podcast. I’m your host, Lauren Goldstein, and my guest joining me here in the studio is T Fam. Tana is the founder of Asian Efficiency, a productivity training company where they help people become more productive at work and in life. He started Asian efficiency in 2011 and has helped over 15,000 clients, a blog that attracts over 1.5 million readers.

And their podcast, the Productivity Show is the number one productivity podcast with over 14 million downloads. Thanh has been featured. Informs Fast Company, Inc. Magazine as a thought leader and he gives keynote addresses all across the world on productivity, efficiency and time management. Welcome to the show, tan.

Thanh: Hey Lauren. Good to see you here and thanks for having me on your show. 

Lauren: Good to see you too. Yes. Thanks for joining us. I’m so beyond excited to have you on the show because I see just how valuable it is to be productive and efficient and overall run your day instead of it running you. And what I love most about how you approach productivity is that it’s holistic, practical, so not just theories, and it isn’t apps specific, which I love.

So to kick us off, why don’t you share a little bit more about your path and how it led to you starting Asian efficiency and the work you do with business owners and entrepreneurs 

Thanh: today? Yeah, so my, uh, parents are, uh, boat refugees from Vietnam. And, uh, they actually met each other in a refugee camp in the Philippines, uh, where I was born.

So they were there for a few years. Uh, they met each other there. They got married inside of a  refugee camp. And then I was born and then we ended up, uh, migrating to the Netherlands where I grew up. So I grew up in a really small town of like a hundred thousand people, about an hour outside of Amsterdam, and I was there for.

Most of my life till I was 18. And so I had like my childhood there and I still have a lot of friends there and I try to go back every other year or so to, to see them. And um, when I was growing up, I was always looking for ways to be more productive and efficient. Uh, but I had no clue how I was just.

Working harder. And that’s something my parents would always do. They had blue collar jobs and anything that needed to be done, you just put in the work and you just do it. And so that’s what was always been my mindset. And so when I moved to the States, uh, to go to school, I ended up dropping out after two and a half years to work.

Uh, for this guy who was my mentor at that time, he had a life coaching business in Los Angeles. And, uh, This was like 2008, 2009 when the crash just happened. Mm-hmm. And I remember walking to the office every single day. We had to walk past the, uh, cn, CNN building mm-hmm. Where you would see like the major headlines going, like, oh, you know, the market is tanking, the economy is in recession, and our business was just booming.

And I got promoted three times in the same year. Uh, wow. Cause there was just so much demand for it. And so, uh, my to-do list also grew in size. So it went from being an intern to being a marketing associate to becoming the marketing director, and then overseeing multiple marketing initiatives to mm-hmm.

Uh, Just being from, you know, this college student who barely knew how to do stuff to now actually running a, a whole team and division. And I had no clue what to do. And my to-do list grew and grew and grew. And it was like an endless to-do list where anytime I checked something off, five things would get added somehow.

And I. Didn’t know what to do with this because my default mode was just working harder, working longer hours. And so I ended up working like six to eight, eight hours a week skipping, you know, holidays with my family and stuff. And, um, I kind of realized, okay, this is not a sustainable path of mm-hmm.

Keeping up with, The work that we have to do. So I had to go from working harder to learning how to work smarter. And from there I kind of reached out to different people and I said, Hey, what do I do to work smarter? And my mentor was like, tan, if you don’t start working smarter, I’m gonna have to find somebody else who works smarter.

And so that kind of, kind of gave me a little bit of a [00:06:00] fire to figure this out. And so I started reading a bunch of books, went to a different number of workshops, and over time I kind of learned different things that kind of worked for me. Some things that didn’t work for me. And this is also when the iPhone just came out, where also like we’re now accessible via email.

Mm-hmm. All the time. And I had to learn like, you know, none of the books were talking about this and blogs and podcasts were not a thing back then. Mm-hmm. And so I kind of developed my own system over time and. I started Asian efficiency as a passion project purely to publicly document what I was learning during this time.

And little did I know, would it become the business it is today because people just really love the contents and they start sharing it and mm-hmm. Uh, it was originally just for friends and family and, um, I got just so many emails from people saying, Hey Dan, I really like the work that you do and the content.

Like, do you have any coaching or programs? And I said, oh no, this is just for free. Uh, but I, I kept getting those emails and I said, oh, maybe I should turn this into a, uh, business. So I launched a, uh, audio program and. Tumbleweeds just flew by. When it got introduced, nobody bought it. I was like, okay, maybe this is not the right thing for me at all.

Uh, but on my second attempt, it ended up working out. And, uh, now that I’ve helped so many people, I kind of created my own methodology that I’ve been testing with all these different clients over the years, which is now called the 25 X productivity system. So it’s been like, 13 years in the making of making this methodology, uh, both from what worked for me, but also working for the clients, uh, that I’ve worked with over the years and here we are today.

Lauren: Oh, I just, I love that story. It’s, it’s really, I think the things that I love most about it is it’s truly the American dream and. The part that I think is so important that I want, I wanna know a little bit more about is when you had those tumbleweeds, you so easily could have just said, well, I guess that this isn’t, this isn’t a business, or I shouldn’t pursue this.

So what was the moment that you were like, Nope, we’re gonna give it an another try. And what was, what was the difference between tumbleweeds and building this business that you have today? 

Thanh: Yeah, I think what kept me going was I literally had no other option. Um, so I was living off my savings and I was like, okay, this has to work.

And if it didn’t work, I would have to do something else until it worked. So, um, okay. I, so long story short, I left the states to go to Asia. Uh, when I dropped outta school, I had a student visa and you have to stay enrolled in school in order to keep your. Visa status, uh, but I didn’t because I was working for this guy.

And so, uh, I got a letter one day from national, or you know, Homeland Security and it’s at Tan. It seems like you’re not enrolled in school. Uh, you have to leave the country in the next 30 days. And I went, oh boy. Okay. Um, so I know moving to Asia. I knew I was gonna come back at some point. And so, uh, that’s when Asian efficiency got started and when I introduced my first program, the mistake that I’ve realized I made was okay.

I had an audience, I had people who liked my content and suggested that I created something. But when I created the program, which was teaching people how to. Uh, effectively how to have an evening routine, as I like to call it, so that you can sleep better. Uh, because we all nowadays know that sleep is mm-hmm.

So important for productivity and focus and having better mood and energy. But this is around 2011 when sleep was not really a topic that people were discussing or talking about, so I was kinda like too early. So there was timing that mattered. Mm-hmm. The other thing was I was doing research online. On the internet, I read Amazon reviews, I read, you know, different forums of what people were dealing with.

So I was doing research, but I wasn’t doing research in front of my own audience because those were different people. Like those people already knew that sleep was important. Uh, so they were already, you know, aware of that. So they didn’t need my solution. Other people did, but when I market to my existing people, it, the message just didn’t resonate cuz they already knew that idea.

Mm-hmm. And so I was like, okay, I was doing the right things that people tell you to do, like do your research and, you know, interview people and that kind of thing. Uh, but I was just doing it in front of the wrong people, so. Mm-hmm. When I realized that, I said, okay. On my second attempts, I’m going to interview people and talk to people that follow my stuff, and that’s when I realized they all struggled with something very similar, which was man managing your to-do list with a particular app At that time that was very popular called OmniFocus, which is something I still use today.

And so. I started working with like 10 different people creating a solution with them, and this is a approach that people call Lean Startup. And so it’s the idea that, and there’s a book called Lean Startup, which I’ve read. Mm-hmm. It’s on my bookshelf. Yeah. It’s like, uh, for those who don’t know, it’s basically the idea that, you know, what companies used to do in the past is they would think about a solution, build it, launch it, and then hope it worked.

Mm-hmm. Uh, and Lean Startup says, Hey, instead of hoping that it’s going to work, why don’t you find a small number of people that you can work with? Build the solution with them so that you know it, it is working and you’re iterating with their feedback. And then by the time you’re kind of done with them, you then introduce it into the marketplace because you’ve already proven that people want and need [00:11:30] this.

Mm-hmm. And so, uh, I kind of took that approach and I said, okay, let me create an online course with a small number of people that have this challenge. And then when I finalized it, And then introduced it. It just like really resonated with my audience. And then, uh, that allowed me to go actually full-time.

Lauren: Oh, it’s so good. Yeah. I’m actually, I, when I learned this methodology that you shared, Oh, it was, it was life changing cuz I, I know personally I’d spent months creating a lot of different things that, you know, some works, some fell on their face. So if you haven’t read that book, go read it. So, back to sustainability, cuz that’s something, as you know, we’re, we’re actually friends in real life, but the mental health of entrepreneurs is something that I’m really passionate about and I see far too many of us.

Burned down our businesses because we’re burned out. And so that’s one of the reasons I wanted to have you on the show is to really talk about sustainability and what we can do as human beings and business owners. To really get ahead of our to-do list and focus on the things that are really important.

So when we, when we look at, well, when you look at people that want to be more productive or you’re working with someone, what are some of the hurdles that you see that are key them from actually stepping out of the busy into the productive and having that more sustainable work-life balance? 

Thanh: Yeah, this is where I think most people who teach productivity [00:13:00] or um, give other people advice around productivity are oftentimes one dimensional.

And what I mean with that is, uh, a lot of people will talk about, oh, do X, Y, and Z. Like, get better at using your calendar and get better at following a system. And those are all great ideas, uh, in isolation. But what I’ve found from working with a lot of different people is that if we want to help people and impact them, And make sure that they have this work-life balance.

We actually have to look at it from a 360 point of view and make sure we addressing our, we are addressing the root issues of people, uh, issues that they have. And so as an entrepreneur, when you’re building your business, yeah, you have to get really good at managing your time, obviously. But also mm-hmm.

We have to get really good at managing our energy. We also have to make sure we’re focusing on the right things. And if we can have all three in place, we oftentimes are in a position to be really productive. So this is why I call it the T frameworks, which is time, energy, and attention. Mm-hmm. And so if we’re looking to be the best version of ourself, I’ve noticed that.

The best way to do that is make sure you’re managing your time in a way that is sustainable and right for you. Right. Otherwise, if we don’t do that, we feel like we’re overwhelmed. Mm-hmm. When we feeling overwhelmed, it’s oftentimes a lack of time. And so the other thing is we need energy as well, so, If we don’t have any energy, you can have all the time in the world to build your marketing campaign or build your business, but if you have no energy to do it, even if you’ve blocked off the whole afternoon to work on your business, but you have no energy, no fuel, guess what?

Things won’t happen. Mm-hmm. And so that’s the other thing we have to pay attention to. And then also with attention, it’s, yeah. And I’m sure you’ve seen this, nothing pains me more than seeing an entrepreneur spending all this time and energy working on something. Only to realize afterwards that it was the wrong priority or the wrong thing to focus on.

Mm-hmm. And that’s a really sad waste, right? So if we wanna be in a state where we’re high performing, but also we have this balance, we have to look at our life from different aspects. And so when I’m working with entrepreneurs or high level executives, I tried to look at it from, I. A lifestyle point of view, where to go.

Okay. Oftentimes their management of time is pretty decent, uh, but their management of energy is usually pretty poor. And then usually the attention is okay, meaning like they typically know what to do. Um, But as people kind of rise up, I’ve noticed that they’re oftentimes overwhelmed by the opportunities that they have.

And so they kind of don’t know how to prioritize stuff. And when they look at their to-do list or what they’re trying to accomplish this week, like everything looks equally important. And then they got, oh, like that’s an recipe to get overwhelmed very easily. And so, mm-hmm. Um, I would say to two things, most people, As they rise up, uh, need to focus on is managing their energy and just reminding themselves like, what is the goal?

What is the end game? What actually matters? Of all the 20 things I could be doing, there’s only like a few things that really matter, and sometimes that lack of skill set, uh, is something that we have to address. 

Lauren: Oh, so many good nuggets in there. I, I love the, the, the focus part of like, are you working on the right things?

Cuz they, there’s a great analogy of you could be climbing the ladder just to realize that your ladder’s on the wrong wall. And so I think that that’s really important to, to figure out what you’re accountable to and what’s gonna move your business forward. And then in terms of energy, something that I did that that really changed everything and increased my productivity is taking, and I think you do something very similar, but being very thoughtful about when I unplug.

So Saturdays generally, and unless I’m traveling or. You know, have a big event are the days that I intentionally unplug. It’s the days when I do a lot of thinking time. There’s sleeping, there’s, you know, more exercise, better food, all the things to recharge my batteries. So in terms of energy, what are a few things that you found that make the biggest difference in, in really recharging your energetic battery?

Thanh: Yeah. So when it comes to energy, there’s a few things. I teach all of my clients, and the first thing I typically work on is their sleep hygiene. So sleep to me is the ultimate force multiplier for productivity. So imagine getting an extra hour of sleep every single night. Like how much more energetic would you feel if you got an extra hour of sleep, even just last night when you think about it?

Mm-hmm. I think most of us would. Raise their hands and go, oh, wow. Like that would be a game changer for me if I get an extra hour of sleep. So most people struggle with that. And typically what they try to do is, you know, if they go to bed at midnight, they’ll go to bed at 11 and they go, okay, hopefully this will work.

And sometimes it does for some people, some people could just fall asleep right away. Right? Yeah. Uh, others, they lay down in bed and their mind is just raising a thousand miles an hour and go, why can’t I fall asleep right away? Mm-hmm. And so, Um, if you’re in that camp, one of the things I would recommend you do is journal at the end of the day.

So what you’re essentially doing is instead of letting your brain process things, uh, which is. It’s kind of necessary for the brain to learn and to adapt and start memory and stuff. The other thing you can do is journal, and you’re actively processing what’s going on in your head, and so by the time you fall asleep, you don’t have to think about, oh, did I call back Lauren Goldstein?

Did I reply to her email? Oh, did she text me, text me a few days ago? Did I get back to her text message? Like there’s just so many things going through our head that when you journal, at the end of the day, you kind of empty your head, clear it so that you allow your brain to then transition to fall asleep.

And that makes it much easier, and you don’t have to worry about if you. Miss something or not. So that’s one simple thing that you can do. Uh, the other thing is, this sounds counterintuitive for a lot of people, but taking more breaks throughout the day helps you recharge your batteries. And so, Um, I was at Dell Match play recently.

I think you were there too. I was the, the golf, the golf tournament. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I was hanging out, uh, at one of the suites and I saw Michael Dell there. Mm-hmm. The CEO of, uh, Dell Technology. And I asked him, like, everybody I meet, I always asked him like, Hey, what’s one productivity tip you have? And he said, taking breaks.

And I said, okay, interesting. Why, why is that? And he said, well, I found that if I take more breaks, I can actually have more energy to focus on whenever I sit back at my desk or you know, whenever I’m working in a team. Anytime we have long meetings, I tell people to take breaks, uh, so that we can come back recharge and focus on the next session.

And I found this to be true as well, and it’s something I teach as part of my productivity system is anytime you work for an hour straight, you should take at least a 30 minute break. Mm-hmm. And it sounds counter. Intuitive because you’re like, why should I take breaks? I should just keep going.

Empowering. Yeah. You know, especially of a momentum. And um, over time you’ll start to realize like, it’s kinda like a sprint. Like anytime we’re running and sprinting, we’re exerting all this energy, but we’ll also need a little bit of time to recover before we can sprint again. Mm-hmm. And being a high performing athlete in your business or your company, Uh, it’s the same thing.

We can focus intensely, we can work on staff, we can do like intense meetings, but then we also need a little bit of a break just to recover a little bit before we can continue on. And so, uh, I end up problem taking like two, three hours, not two. Two, yeah. Two-ish hours a day of breaks. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I found that I’m, I’m actually much more focused and productive that way versus just, all right, it’s 9:00 AM I’m just powering through until one o’clock, you know, or 1230.

And you go, okay, let me take a little bit of a lunch break, you know, and then you come back from lunch, you’re like, oh, okay. I need a little bit of a break to before I can continue to work on stuff again. And then it’s five o’clock and you’re like, okay, I maybe had an hour of lunch break. But then if you actually divide it in multiple breaks in between, you’ll start to notice that anytime you come back and sit down at your desk or whatever else you have to do, you kind of come with this new perspective, this new sense of energy and focus that.

Helps you improve the work you do, and you actually do it oftentimes faster, I find. Mm-hmm. Taking more breaks and getting an extra hour of sleep are probably the two easiest things that people can do that almost have an immediate impact. 

Lauren: Oh, that’s so good. And I know for me, I’m a night owl, so sleep is, sleep is something that has been a challenge, but um, both of us have the aura ring and so that has been very helpful for me.

And the app that you recommended Rise, I think it’s called where it tells you your sleep debt. Your sleep debt. Zero. Mine. Mine’s. Mine’s okay. It’s a five, but, but still, um, I really enjoy those two tips so. Shifting a little bit to business owners and teams, is there a common mistake that you see happen most frequently with business owners and specifically with their team productivity and how they’re trying to approach that?

 Thanh: I mean, the rabbit hole goes pretty deep. So, uh, depending on where you want to take it. Um, one thing I’ll see quite often, especially around delegation mm, is uh, when people who manage teams or manage multiple people, when they try to delegate something, they will. Be pretty decent at telling them what they kind of want.

Mm-hmm. But oftentimes they’re disappointed by the result that they get back and then they go, oh, my team is not that great. Like, I have to find other people, or mm-hmm. Uh, they don’t really ever think that maybe they could have done a better job delegating. Right. So, yeah. The short version of this before we ex expand on this is to say, if you delegate a lot and you’re unhappy with the results you’re getting back, that means you did a poor job of delegating ideally.

Mm-hmm. You get to the point where when you’re delegating something, what you get back is exactly what you want. It’s if not even better. Right. And that’s not always a function of the people that you delegate to. It’s oftentimes a function of how well did you delegate the thing you needed to be delegating.

And so one of the things I. Always tell people is when you’re delegating something, two easy things you can do is one, when you’ve delegated something, ask the person that you delegated to, to repeat back what you just talked about. Mm-hmm. And that one simple thing you’ll oftentimes uncover, like, oh, well, uh, you said, This and this and this and this, and you realize, oh no, I didn’t say that at all.

I actually meant for you to do this and this and this. Mm-hmm. Or this and that and this and that. And so having them repeat back what you just said is an easy way to find like loopholes or things that were unclear. Mm-hmm. Or things that were completely wrong, and you can address that instead of waiting a whole week and then getting it back and go, no, this is not what I want.

Like let’s actually change this. Right. So having them repeat back. The other thing is, I call this like the definition of done. Mm-hmm. So if you’re a Scrum user, you’ve probably heard of this idea, right? So the d o D is basically how do you define what success looks like? Mm-hmm. And the more specific you can be, the better outcome you will get.

So for example, if I’m outsourcing or delegating, hey, uh, could you help me, uh, make a reservation for this restaurant? Right. Or for a date night with somebody, like really simple example. Mm-hmm. Okay. So if you have somebody who helps you with that, you could say, okay, just book me at restaurant, you know, and, uh, I’m good to go.

Like, I just need to eat dinner. Right? Well, the, the person will obviously then say, okay, what dates, you know, how many people, what kind of food? Right? So that’s a poor form of delegation. So the more specific you can be, The less questions you will get back. Mm-hmm. And that’s oftentimes a, kinda like a, a good sign whether you did a good job of delegating.

So the fewer questions you get back, the better job you did. Mm-hmm. So if I said, Hey, I would like to book a Italian restaurant on Thursday, uh, around six to eight o’clock or so for dinner for two people with my wife, and, uh, I wanna make sure it’s gluten free. Or to have gluten-free options Right now, we get really specific on the specific dates and stuff, and then I would say, okay, the definition of done is Thea, the reservation is booked under my name, so.

For two people at an Italian restaurant that has gluten-free options, right? Mm-hmm. So now we know what success looks like, and whoever’s working on this then knows that they’re done when they’ve met this criteria. And so, mm-hmm. Oftentimes when we’re delegating, most people don’t know when they’re working on something.

When they’re technically done. They just kind of hope. That they’re done. But if we as delegators can get really specific about what done looks like, hence why we call it the definition of done, uh, sometimes it’s three or four or five sentences to really explain what that looks like, uh, instead of just one-liner, which oftentimes people kind of do.

Lauren: Mm-hmm. Oh, definition of done changed my life. I’m so glad you brought that up. And something that you just sparked in me is, uh, my friend Cameron Harold, who has written so many great books about teams and operations. Um, he talks about how in addition to the definition of done, you should tell them how long.

It should take, or how long you want them to spend on something so they’re not, you know, spending eight hours on something that really should have only taken two, so you can help understand if they’re getting stuck because it’s starting to take them longer.

Thanh:  Yeah, I, I find that, uh, depending on the task, that’s very helpful and the size and the scope, right?

Mm-hmm. So if it’s like a reservation, uh, if someone spent eight hours on it, I would go, like, common sense is kind of missing here, right? Right. But if we’re working on a big project, I can see how that’s very helpful. Mm-hmm. Um, and also, You know, I’m not a huge fan of fake deadlines. Um, typically I only like to use real deadlines, like if taxes are due on the 15th of April, like, okay, they’re due on the 15th, right?

Yeah. Um, so I don’t usually recommend artificial deadlines for stuff unless, uh, there’s a sense of urgency. Uh, behind it because there is some, some other contingency related to the task, right? So for example, I might need a logo before Friday because on Monday I have a meeting with, uh, the designer of the website, for example, right?

So if that’s the case, then yeah, there’s kind of a deadline informally associated with that. But otherwise I would not recommend creating, uh, fake deadlines. Um, and then when people are. Repeating back what they’re working on. Uh, oftentimes I find that if, uh, if they have good clarity about what needs to be done, then um, I’m usually trusting them enough to go, you know, you go do it.

Do your best work possible, however long it, it might take. Uh, because as long as they know their priorities, to me, that’s the most important thing. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Lauren: And it’s also important, I think you, you talked about something. There that just because it takes us five minutes, we have to know that we have a certain level of experience and skill that that makes us more efficient is at a task.

So just because it takes someone else longer doesn’t mean they’re not capable. It just means they’re, they’re less familiar with it. So there’s, there’s a, a certain level of grace that we get to give them. 

Thanh: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I, uh, I’ve seen this with other people who are pretty new to delegating. That’s they go, why would I delegate something if I can do it in five minutes versus them doing it for an hour?

And I go, you, you are technically right. Uh, you could probably do it faster. Uh, however, uh, that’s kinda like short term thinking. Where mm-hmm. If they get really good at the particular task, they can get it down from one hour to five minutes. And if you do it enough times, you’ll win more hours back over the long run.

Uh, so if you think about it over a longer period of time, you actually win. Uh, if you’re able to be patient enough with the people that you delegate to. 

Lauren: Yes. Patience is key. All right, so tell us a little bit more about this 25 x productivity system that you have honed and developed.

Thanh: So this came about, uh, when, when I started in 2011.

I was really good at helping others. Uh, solve their challenges because I studied every single productivity method out there because again, it was just my way of learning stuff. So I read stuff about, you know, scrum, getting things done, agile principles, uh, zen to done, um, you know, bullet journals like. You name it, I’ve studied it all.

Yeah. And so I became really good at obsessing about, okay, how does every system work? And my, uh, approach back then was, you know, I can make the biggest impact if I know all the systems that are out there. And so when someone comes to me and they need help, I could immediately jump in and, and help them, right?

Mm-hmm. Uh, and. What I realized is, okay, that is powerful. Uh, however, uh, I’ve noticed that there were always  gaps in different methodologies and systems that I thought, oh, I wish they added this, or I wish they added that, and that would make it better. And so I kind of took like the Bruce Lee approach where I kind of took the best of everything and I kind of put it together in one place.

Mm-hmm. And that’s how I came up with the T framework, which is, you know, time, energy, and attention. Mm-hmm. Because someone would be really good at a particular methodology or system. Uh, for example, using their calendar and their to-do list and using Evernote or particular apps, right? But then because their sleep was terrible,  it, it didn’t matter how skilled they were, right?

Because they were lacking the holistic aspect to productivity. And so I created this T framework, but then I also realized, uh, High level, that’s a good idea. But what are the specific things that people need to do to maximize their time, to maximize their energy, to maximize their attention? Mm-hmm. And I kind of realized, okay, there’s no predictable path that I’m giving people to the destination.

So I needed to carve out that path for them to say, Hey, if you wanna master time, this is the definition of done when you’ve mastered time. Mm-hmm. Right? And this is the definition of done when you’ve mastered energy. And this is the d o d for your for attention. And so, What I started to do is I put it on my whiteboard and I said, okay, here are all the most successful clients that I’ve worked with.

Um, and there were roughly like 90 people or so on that list that I kinda like said, okay, these are like the top of the cream here. Mm-hmm. And then I created a matrix and I said, what do they do really well? So like  I, I listed all the different skills and things that they do and. And so I created this matrix of all these different clients and the things they did, and I noticed there was a little bit of an overlap in a lot of the different things.

So like some of the most productive people I know, they always plan their day. Uh mm-hmm. They also have some sort of a routine in the morning to kind of get started. They also, uh, make sure that they check in with themselves every now and then. They also have, uh, best practices around taking breaks and vacations and time off.

To re rejuvenate and get back and, uh, have more energy, right? And so I started to notice all these different things, uh, from reverse engineering, the clients that I worked with. And essentially it came down to roughly 25 skills that they all had in common. And that’s how I came up with this, uh, system that I now called that 25 x productivity system cuz it teaches people.

How to maximize their time, energy, and attention using the 25 different steps. And so it will include something like, you know, planning your day and planning your week. It also includes something like, uh, doing your weekly review. So being, uh, retrospective about what happens so you can learn from it. Uh, so you can plan better moving forward and thinking time and, uh, delegating.

And so there’s like 25 steps that I essentially created. And so, uh, if anybody wanted to. Become a master of productivity, I would say if you master these 25 steps, uh, you would be in the, like a productivity ninja essentially. 

 Lauren: Uh, I, I think my biggest takeaway from what you just shared is the power of proactivity because what I’m hearing, and, and I did, I did look up your 25 productivity system, but what I, what I saw is so much of it comes down to you being in control of your day instead of your day controlling you. And so a lot of these, these steps are about how [00:34:00] can you proactively, you know, reflect or create time or take breaks rather than doing it.

As a last resort because you’re so close to burning out, or you are so busy, or you are so overwhelmed. Do I have that right? 

Thanh: I think an underlying idea behind my approach to everything is being proactive versus being reactive, because when we’re mm-hmm. Being reactive, we’re already behind the curve.

Whereas if we are proactive, we can actually,  like you said, be in control, but also, um, determine the outcome that we want and navigate life in, in a way that we want it to be instead of reacting to what’s happening to us. Because if you’re reacting by default, you’re already too late. And so if I think about, you know, controlling my time, controlling my focus, controlling my energy instead of leaving it at up to chance and just hoping and praying that it’s all okay.

I take the approach of what can I do now to influence whether it’s today or tomorrow or next week, to feel a certain way to have the availability that I need to do the things I want to do, and making sure I’m doing the right things and, um, I like the fact that there are all these things we can do to influence the outcome that we’re looking for, right?

So if I want to have more time, instead of hoping that I’ll somehow have more time, I could say, well, what, what are things that I can do to carve out time so I can have the time? For the things I wanna do. Hmm. Whether it’s picking up your children from school or spending some time doing your favorite hobbies.

Right. Um, and it’s a matter of prioritizing that in our lives. And I think sometimes people forget that if we prioritize the stuff. We actually create time and space for the things to happen then, right? So, mm-hmm. For example, if you really wanted to drop off your kids at school and pick them up, no matter how busy your schedule might be, if it’s that important to you, you’ll figure out a way to get it done right?

You might have to renegotiate certain things. You have to make, maybe some, uh, compromises or sacrifices, but if it’s that important to you, you’ll figure out a way to do it. And so, We just have to figure out what actually matters to us. And if, if we can answer that question, prioritizing your to-do list easy.

Renegotiating your schedule. Easy doesn’t mean it’s simple, but it’s relatively easy to know what you need to do next. And so, uh, the underlying pinning of all of this is like, Hey, if we have an idea of what we want out of life, uh, if we can just add some additional steps and skills on top of that, like you’re ahead of the game for, uh, for most of your lifetime.

Lauren: So well said. So well said. And I think what’s also really important for me to remember and what you just said is when you’re feeling overwhelmed in your business, it sometimes it’s easy to think that, you know, it’s always gonna be this way, or you’re always gonna be stressed, or there’s always gonna be another thing on  your to-do list.

But the way that you approach productivity and, and what you’re sharing here is. We actually have a heck of a lot more control over all of this than we think in just making that shift and, and remembering that we do have control over our time and what we focus on and our energy, I think puts us back in the driver’s seat.

Thanh: Yeah. It’s all about, uh, realizing that you have the power to do this, right? Mm-hmm. It’s not about, uh, being a victim of your circumstances. Uh, there are a lot of things that are outside of our control. Mm-hmm. Uh, however, once we start shifting our perspective to say what are some things that I can’t control and influence, it gives you a lot of power, right?

Like, you can control what time you wake up and what time you. Go to bed to some degree. Mm-hmm. You can control, um, what you say yes to and what you say no to. Mm-hmm. You can control, um, what you’re gonna be deciding to work on next. Like there’s a lot of things we can influence and I think if we understand and realize that we have so much power, that sometimes people forget that we have all this power, which is fantastic if we have it right.

So even if you work in a corporate job, There’s a lot of things you can still control and influence within your role of being within the company, and so we just need to bring awareness to that. 

Lauren: Mm-hmm. Oh, wow. Do y’all see why I just had to have Thanh on the show? Whew. I, there’s, there’s so much here and you know, I could talk about this with you for ages, but I wanna start wrapping us up.

But before I do, tell us a bit more about the productivity show in your podcast, in Asian efficiency, and how our listeners can further connect with you. 

Thanh: Yeah, so I have a podcast called The Productivity Show. It’s a weekly podcast. You can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify. Just search for it. Uh, you’ll see it there.

It’s a weekly, uh, episode on productivity tips and strategies that you can use right away. And so I’ve been doing that for, uh, seven years now. Oh, yeah, it’s been a long time. 

Lauren: Wow. I didn’t realize that. And OG.

Thanh: Yeah, I wish I started sooner. So, uh, if  you’re ever in the camp of like, oh, I wish I had done this sooner, or It’s too late.

No, it’s never too late, just do it. Mm-hmm. You’ll wish you had done it sooner, so it’s never too late. I thought I was too late and, you know, compared, that was seven years ago, so, but I digress. Go check out the productivity show. And also I have a website called Agent Efficiency. It’s at agent efficiency.com where we have productivity tips, free articles.

You can subscribe to our newsletter as well. Uh, so much good stuff for free. So, And so, uh, go check it out. If you need any resources, we probably have it. I’ve written over 700 articles over 13 years now, so there’s something there for you. Mm-hmm. 

 Lauren: It is a treasure trove of goodness, so check it out. And I know we’ve covered a lot, but are there any last nuggets or pieces of advice that you wanna make sure you share with our listeners that we didn’t cover as we wrap up?

Thanh: I think one thing I’ve noticed from, uh, podcasting in general, like if you’re listening to a podcast, there’s so much advice, so many tips, and it can feel quite overwhelming,  so I always recommend if you made it this far, I. If there’s one thing that really resonate with you, just do the one thing. Don’t try to do everything.

Just pick one thing that resonated with you, implement it, and the faster you implement it, the more likely it will become habitual or a skill that you develop instead of waiting till tomorrow or the next day, because then you forget about it and the other urgent stuff will come up. So whether it’s, you know, Lauren’s podcast or any other podcast you listen to, just take one thing, implement it, and I think you’re gonna see, uh, great results from doing that.

Lauren: Oh, a great nugget. Yeah. And that’s essentially what the whole book, the One Thing is about. Which is a great segue cuz the last question I ask all my guests, which I cannot wait for you to answer, since you are such a prolific reader like I am, what is a book that you think every entrepreneur or business owner should read and why?

 Thanh: Ooh. Uh, for entrepreneurs, I would say, The five dysfunctions of a team. Yes. I love that one by Patrick Lencioni. So, uh mm-hmm. Not productivity related, other than the fact that, you know, if you have a high performing team, you’re gonna get higher productivity. So this is a book, uh, me and my team members read every single year, and we always reflect on it every January.

It’s kinda like our, our kickoff of the year. And so, uh, I’ve been doing that for the last six, seven years now with my team. And, uh, I highly recommend it. It kind of gives you like five levels of. Ways to optimize your team performance. And it’s not about the technical know-how. It’s actually about trust, accountability, and respect for each other and being able to hold each other accountable.

And so, uh, I’ve seen that every single year, every time we talk about it, it levels up our team performance just because we remind ourselves what matters for team performance. And that’s a book I would recommend. 

Lauren: Mm, it’s one of my favorites. I actually recommend it quite frequently to my clients and, uh, just finished his follow-up book, the Ideal Team Player.

So I will link both of those in the show notes. Well, tan, thank you so much for being on the show. It has been such a pleasure to chat with you about this. Um, and just pick your brain. 

Thanh: Thank you for having me. This was fun. 

Lauren: I’m glad. All right everybody, that is it for this week’s episode. Thank you so much for listening in.

If anything we shared sparks something in you, we’d love for you to share this episode with your friends or other business owners, and I’d also love to hear from you. So let’s connect tag or DM me on Instagram at its Lauren Goldstein or LinkedIn or wherever you hang out on the interweb. Also don’t forget to subscribe, so you’re the first to get notified when our next episode is live and ready for your ears.

Thanks so much for listening. Until next time.

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