How To Build An In-House Marketing Team with Guest Ruoyun Killian

Lauren: You built your product, you launched your business.

You saw success, money in the bank, growing team, happy client, but now you feel like you’re drowning. I’m here to help you get your head above water. I’m Lauren Goldstein. My clients call me the Business Doctor.

Together, we’ll diagnose the root cause of your business worries. Whether it’s your people, your process, your product will clarify your business. So you can scale without the burnout and then we will simplify it all. So your business can do what it’s designed to do, make a profit and an. Welcome to the Biz Doctor Podcast.

Welcome back to the show. I’m so excited about today’s show because I have special guests, Ruoyun killian, one of my good friends and human-centered marketing and business. We normally chat about all things, business and entrepreneurship over coffee, or when we’re exploring a new restaurant in Austin. So I wanted to bring to you our mind melds, especially around this topic, because I don’t know about you, but I am not a marketing expert.

In fact, it makes my head hurt a little, but Ruoyun is a marketing magician, and I know today’s episode is going to be chalk full of amazing golden nuggets for you to take and run. Today, we’re gonna dive into how to build an in-house marketing team or something. We all are curious about knowing when to hire out a marketing agency.

We’re also gonna dive into marketing optimization so you can get more R O T I it’s gonna be juicy. So get comfy. And let me introduce you to Ruoyun.

Ruoyun is on a mission to put the human experience back into marketing. She believes that if we learn to fundamentally reconnect as human beings within our businesses, we can create space for our society to explore a new common language built for the human species as a whole.

With over 10 years in the digital marketing industry, she advises businesses and organizations to implement their sustainable human-centered marketing system so they can continue to optimize and amplify their impact. She’s created space for clients such as big. Serenity kids, crafty counter slow north rebel cheese, university of Texas center for sports communication and media and others through her individual work.

And at C3 NAMI, the digital marketing agency, she founded in 2015. Welcome Ruoyun.

Ruoyun: Hi friend. Hi, I’m so excited. This is like a long time coming. We used to joke about doing what is it behind the magic curtain, I think is what we called it as like a fun potential thing. Now we get to talk behind the magic curtain.

Lauren: Yes. I’m so excited. This is definitely a long time coming. And I, I think we, we made that up because of what was it? The wizard of Oz. Like who’s behind the curtain and what’s happening. Yeah. Yes. So I’m excited to have you.

Ruoyun: I’m excited too. Yeah. It’s, it’s funny cuz like both of us work in operations and that is like the most unseen thing mm-hmm right.

Like everyone sees the final touchpoint of the rainbow, but they never see the projector that builds it. Right. So yes.

Lauren: Yes. So true. So true. And I’m so excited to have you dive into. All things about strategic hiring and I’m just, I’m excited. So wherever you wanna kick us off in strategic hiring and creating a team that like really knows how to make the marketing magic happen.

Ruoyun: Yeah, let’s set some ground rules to start because people, when they hear marketing, they’re like digital non-digital. Yes. I had a digital marketing agency. I specialize in, um, human centered marketing, which goes from all the rays of the rainbow. So from digital marketing to SEO, to websites, e-comm. To PR, et cetera, et cetera, and beyond.

Right. And how I explain to my clients is that marketing at its core is human to human connection. And that’s why it’s called human centered marketing. And it’s really another human being, seeing the light within you. Right? So like your core, your purpose, your why, why you function all that jazz. That’s what I like to call like a light, um, Mu easy analogy or like the metaphor visual of a heat lamp.

And it’s, you can turn it up or down as you desire. Um, it probably got some scorch marks in that oil lamp oil, heat lamp that’s in there that you gotta clean [00:05:00] up over time. Right. And then that light is what I then shine through a projector that creates. This beautiful Ray of rainbow that comes across and the same thing applies for, um, how service is being offered, product, et cetera.

Right? Like, think of basically like a single light. And then there’s like multiple projectors, like the financial projections, the marketing projections, the operation projections, and the people in hiring projections. Right. And as C-suite business owners, you have to be very comfortable and confident in.

And who you are and the why EV everything that you do. So it’s not just like, you feel like you’re in the hustle grind for monetary benefits, um, and really being specific about what that is, because I can build the perfect projector if the light doesn’t shine properly. It doesn’t. So, uh, it’s not gonna like show all the way through.

It’s just gonna flicker like an old film kind of thing. Mm-hmm , mm-hmm and. Before we dive into like the specific tactical examples about strategy and things like that. I wanted to set that context, that everything that we’re gonna deep dive into in the trees, the forest is this projector that you’re going through.

So if you’re hearing a lot of new ideas that we’re gonna talk about in this podcast episode, my disclaimer is your gut is gonna tell you if that goes into your projector. It’s a system. It’s a thing that we’re growing. Um, yes, I am also notoriously known for a ton of metaphors so get ready for that life imagining things.

Um, but yeah, so that’s human centered marketing in a general nutshell. What we’re going to talk about is how it builds that projector and let’s talk strategic hiring for that projector. Building of the projector. So I always give context of when I talk about human centered marketing, Is the tactical strategy and the emotional strategy that goes into designing marketing.

So there’s the tactical. Like you run an ad, they go on a website, they click on the social ad, da, da, da. Right. But it’s the mindset journey that you’re guiding them through. That through each of those tactical steps, that’s just the container that delivers it, the experience it’s like the container that Del that delivers this delicious food that you’re about to consume.

And it’s part of the experience, but it’s not the food itself. Right? Like the food itself is what you only care about. Okay. And that’s the mindset and the messaging and things like that.

Lauren: I like that. I like that. Yes. And real quick, before we dive deeper, just. I like to make sure I’m understanding. When you say projector, are you talking about like those old school projectors that we had in school where you had to like actually stick the things in we’re kind of dating ourselves people.

So if you don’t know what we’re talking about, essentially a projector was this very neat little thing, um, where you had these square images that you put into the projector and. Um, you could load it all up and then move the projector forward or backward. And so what you’re talking about when people are listening is, you know, take what you will leave the rest, if it fits your business.

Great. If you have questions, you know, connect with Roan, don’t connect with me, cuz I trust me not marketing expert here but like all of these different projector tiles come together to create the story of your business. Do I have that right?

Ruoyun: It’s more of like, think of it in two, you get two different ways.

Cause I, the original example that I like to use is like, it’s a prism. So like, you know how a light goes through a rainbow, a prism and creates a rainbow effect. And that’s what it is. Um, the other way, when we’re. So that’s like the strategy of it. And then the system side of it is think of it more like a movie projector.

I think that’s actually a better example of your movie projector is telling a narrative and a story and beautiful this era. Like literally in beginning of this year, I was doing my gigantic annual trends report, deep dive. Um, when I say gigantic, I list, I get like 30 major research publications, including Forester.

And I like digest all the, I get to be the like marketing nerd that I am. Right. and the number one thing that kept coming up is. Brands, not just content creators, where there’s like a category that potentially will have its own a N I CS accounting code by the IRS one day. It’s not just those. Everyone is a content creator and it could show up as thought leadership.

It could show up in different forms and it’s really. Creating a legacy and a body of work that your brand is creating. And basically we are in the information age and everything that you do, whether it’s direct, transactional impact an event, et cetera, that’s all documentable content that, um, people can find you.

Follow you and all that jazz doesn’t mean that you have to be a content creator posting three to four times per day. That’s literally not your job. That is a YouTuber’s job like, that’s not in your job description as a business owner. Right. So I do like, and that is that’s the, in a distinguish that you have to decide in your gut as a business owner, as we go through, it’s like, you hear this thing, I have to do it three to four times.

I have to do content creation, but. What balance does it make sense for me in the tactical space?

Lauren: Amazing. Thank you for extrapolating on that a little bit more. So let’s kick it off. Let’s dive in. I’m ready. I’ve got my notebook here and I’m taking notes.

Ruoyun: Cool. So what questions would you like to start us often?

That cuz you’re a business owner as well. And so it’s like kind of fun that you’re on the, you, you are in the shoes, right? Like part of the idea of why we started, we were like, I need to have you on my podcast is cuz because we were having. We were having dinner and she was like, I need to do this thing.

And I was like, oh, just do this, this and this. And then hire for this one and look for this one. And she. Okay. I love all of it. That was a brain explosion. yeah, yeah,

Lauren: yeah. So we recording, we create mutual brain explosions and yeah. What she, what she was alluding to is, you know, I was talking about, I don’t know if this resonates with any business owners that are listening, but I’m not always proactive in my market.

Because it sometimes seems really overwhelming. And so she said, oh, just do these few things. And it made it so simple. So I think where I wanna start us is really talking about strategic hiring and creating a team of strategists and doers and people who are in their zone of genius. Because I know for me, because I’m not an expert in marketing, You know, I can’t have somebody on my team where I’m telling them what to do.

I need somebody like you, who has the plan, who has, you know, the direction that can take us there and finding somebody like you, um, is difficult, cuz you’re a one of a kind. And also, you know, since I don’t have a marketing background and I’m guessing that a lot of the business owners that are listening in also don’t have a marketing background, something that I think.

Either paralyzes us from hiring in zones where we don’t know we’re an expert is we just don’t know what to look for. So in terms of like strategic hiring, I’d love for you to share your thoughts on that.

Ruoyun: Right? I mean, whether it’s talking to an agency or talking to an individual sometimes like, In 2015, my job description as a digital marketer existed like three years officially, it was like an official job description in the world.

Right. And, um, the number one question that I, or like feedback that I hear from business owners at that time was. Why do I need social? And then the other thing was like, I don’t even know what questions that I should ask for this job description, whether it’s to hire someone in house or hire agency. And back in the day, it was like, you got really good, like really amazing agency people that charge like an arm of the leg or SEO companies that said they did social.

And then the other option was look around the room and say, you’re millennial. You should know to do social media. Right. And. Ironically enough all these years later, that is still. A similar scenario, except we just now have a variety to pick from you still have those same three options and you have like a freelancer that you can randomly talk to from the gig economy.

You have maybe creatives, like actual like influencers, content, creators that you’re creating, sponsored content from, because you might be really good in PR you might be good in biz dev, and then you slowly creep in this, like. Influencer wild, wild west relationship building arena, and they’re feeding you ideas.

And then you’re just paralyzed between all of that. Right. And, um, The core that I tell my clients when it comes to hiring a good marketer is to look for what I call strategic creatives. Meaning there they are creative in telling storytelling. Um, and they are also like, they ask the why question. Like, if you tell them we need to post three to four times per day, they’re gonna be like, cool.

But why? And it’s not. Um, but why your credibility, they literally need to know so that they’re motivated to do it. Right. And it’s what we call the mindful pause check moment. Um, and really ask what does done look like and does it truly create the end result that serves our larger OKR goals at the end of the day?

Right. And then business owners come to me and they’re like, I don’t wanna get lost in the weeds of how to post a reel, but I need to know why I’m posting reels. right. Yeah. And so business owners and strategic creatives have the same common ground. It’s they, they need to understand why they are doing this technicality in it.

And so, and. Historically, if you like Google, how to optimize Instagram or whatever, um, you’re gonna get like YouTubers who are like, this is the grind. This is what you do. I’m gonna tell you to do this. Like they like edit their video two times faster on purpose to just like. Put you in this like excited adrenaline mode the whole entire time [00:16:00] and make you be like, you need to do this one thing and this time, and I’ll get to it my next one minute video.

Like that’s what they say on repeat over and over and over again. And I’m like, oh my God, just shut up and tell me what it is and why I need to do it. Right. But they just tell you the tactical thing and they promise you results. They don’t actually explain why it’s creating that type of impact. Mm-hmm and.

The biggest thing and like a gut check of hiring people is twofolds. First fold is your biggest question. As a business owner is to figure out why I’m doing something X, Y, Z, if they can’t properly explain it and tie it back to a typical sales journey. Something’s wrong. because all you’re gonna get is I did a lot of brand awareness and it doesn’t tie to my ROI.

Right. And my disclaimer is digital marketing is usually never a direct ROI connector. However, it’s an amplifier and it’s always designed to be an amplifier. But if you got a marketer that can’t tell you this, they just said, we did this for XYZ person and they did blah. And that’s supposed to like, get this through the day.

And you’re taking a risk of investing time with them, whether freelance agency in house, there’s no way to do it, right? Like all a business owner needs to know is like how it connects back to their major customer journey. Cuz everybody needs to be on the same page on a customer journey. and how that comes through.

And then that brings me to my second gut check moment is why as they go through the customer journey, which is what I talked about, both tactical and emotional. How are they coming through on both of those sides? Is it a very transactional feeling or is it actually truly a trust relationship for the long term that’s building?

Um, a lot of business owners. Typically when you ask them why they take this insane, stressful, personal growth journey of being an entrepreneur. It’s like, yeah, it’s earning money, but it’s really for, so they can earn money to do X, right? Like they’re innovators, they wanna do something new. They wanna create the world for the better.

They see no one else doing it. They create, that’s a very like old school editing of it. Right. And so when you. If that’s the business owner in their core is to be a change maker. They need to align on the same values. So whoever they hire, those are the two gut checks. So the first gut check is they need to always be able to tie it back to the customer journey.

And the second gut check is, as they explain how it’s being tied to the customer journey, it doesn’t feel icky. If you talk to an agency owner or someone, and they are talking, they’re tying it to the customer journey, but it’s all transactional language and you leave it feeling like you just like completely like, um, Stole from your customer or like took advantage of your customer.

If that was like a gut feeling that came from their explanation, that might not be a good fit for you to work with that person. yeah.

Lauren: Wow. That was a lot. That was a lot to unpack. So it sounds like when it comes to finding that marketing strategist, you need somebody who has, is human focused, who has the strategy.

It’s not just we did this and got this result, but they can actually tie it back to the why you’re growing your business, your impact. They can tie. You know, again, amplifying when you amplify how that’s going to impact your customer journey. And it feels good, cuz we all know that there are the smarmy marketers out there and that’s not, that’s not what we’re about.

And so in that same vein, when, when does a business owner know when to hire somebody like you and yes, you had an agency before, but now you’re more of an advisor and consultant. And so. How does a business owner decide between bringing in an agency versus hiring somebody like yourself? Who’s an advisor versus actually bringing it in-house.

Ruoyun: So typically clients work with me because I sit as CMO level, right? Like most of the time in agencies are to have an agency be your whole entire marketing department is paying the price point of T3 and GSD and M because that’s the. Level of effort required for it. And I. People don’t realize that. So gone are the days where you only need a digital marketer like that doesn’t work anymore at all.

It’s a team and it’s multiple people. I hire strategic creatives. Like even my creative doer will ask the why. Whereas my strategist. Is going to guide and be the project manager for it. And then I have an engagement person. Right. And they all everyone’s gonna ask why. Right. And then they’re in their zones of genius where it’s a skillset and role that brings them joy.

That brings that GA gives them energy. And it’s what they’re awesome at. So. A quick reference to that language zone of genius is from the book, the big leap by gay Hendrix. And it’s basically about how everybody has different skills and you have zones, different zones. And the trickiest one is a zone of excellence versus a zone of genius.

A zone of excellence means something that you’re amazing at. You’re amazing at both of those zones, but the difference between one versus the other is one gives you energy and one decreases energy. So an example is like, I’m a genius content creator, like whip out content in 15 minutes, tops, right? Like been doing this for 15 years.

It comes with the territory. right. To do that. Mm-hmm and, um, however, my, that is a zone of excellence for me. It actually drains my energy to create content for other people. Whereas a zone of genius for me is the systems builder, guider cor advisor. I’m actually my zone. Excellence is project managing, but my zone of genius is advising because.

While I can be a great hurter of cats. You got me for like three months, and then I have the limited, like patients level for you. Right. So I’m very intentional in that space. So when I typically bring on a client where I’m like an NMM CMO, the intention is we are building your in-house marketing team where you’re recognizing it’s a team, probably about two to three people to start.

And I’m training you the business owner to learn how to lead the team. And then all I need to do. To be the advisor to come in for larger pivots. That’s the goal. It’s like, if we could build you the system and the team where the team feels empowered, keynote empowered and motivated to like bring new ideas to the table.

That’s like the, and the owner is willing to receive new ideas and willing to. Them right. Very intense disclaimer notes, then it makes sense. Right. Otherwise, if it’s also like the it’s a lot of it’s cash flow, I mean, payroll is the number one investment, right? Like you got a lot going in on that. Um, typically like a tactical decision making process between do I do agency versus doing in-house is turnover time.

So. The biggest thing to note is that an agency, their business model is not just you it’s up to between five to 20 clients and one sitting. So if you’re a brand where you have a lot of in-house stuff, you have a lot of stuff that happens on site. Um, you have multiple brands under you, for example, That means it’s time to build your own in-house team to be there.

That gives you a hundred percent, um, type of personality agencies are great. If you eventually grow to that space where you do a lot of onsite, but you don’t. Have the cash flow bandwidth, et cetera. And you have wiggle room to allow for turnover, like turnover, time to create content. Um, then you can do agency, but even when I ran my agency, I always said, My goal is to get you into the sweet spot so that you can eventually afford having in-house team.

Because once you get to that level, you are what the trending things are saying now is you are the designated content creator thought leader in your industry. So that is the end goal. So whether I was an advisor or if I was education working with them, the goal is like, you’ll eventually fly the nest. It might take a couple of years, but you’ll eventually fly the nest.

Lauren: I love that. I love that so much. And that’s actually a lot where we overlap is, you know, I’m interim COO your interim CMO. And our goal is, um, to get fired. I mean, not really, but like essentially where you don’t need us anymore. And we’ve taught, we’ve given you the tools and the techniques to really step into the leadership, to have the team that you need to support marketing, operations, sales, whatever the goals is, the goals are, or what’s missing in your team.

And so what I love most about what you’ve said is there’s a very clear line of demarcation between in house versus agency. And I think there’s so much value and we’re actually seeing, I think this trend a lot more of interim. C X O whatever it is, CMOs CFOs, C COOs. Um, and it’s, so it’s so efficient because, you know, you can come in, I can come in and we can tune up the business and the team to get it really running well so that they can maximize the investment in the team and what they’re doing.

And so I love that you get to be that, you know, 30,000 foot advisor organizing all of this setting all of this up because I gotta admit, I still thought we were in the days where you could have one marketing person so I guess I might need, I might need a little tune up in

Ruoyun: my business. Yeah. That, that went out the window.

Well, so, okay. So let’s, let’s give some historical context to that, right? Like back in the day it was like create content, push it out, call it a day. Right. Mm-hmm however, Digital marketing has evolved into, especially social media. It’s like it is your online community. You don’t need a designated Facebook group to make it an online community.

Your network. It’s basically your little networking room, like imagine Instagram as a gigantic digital conference. Right. And there’s so many breakout rooms. Your channel is a breakout room for. For people to go into with their specific niche that they’re looking for. So like my Instagram and my YouTube channel, if we use that as an example is like, it’s my, um, networking room where marketers and change makers can have fun in play and they get to talk about.

The business and strategy while also nerding out about food and plants. And I use plants a lot in my metaphors when I talk about cultivating and growing human beings, um, because I’m like human beings are literally like plants and, uh, we have to talk about culture when we’re talking about growing teams.

Like those are synonymous culture is the environment. To which a human being can thrive. Right? So like all of that plays it. Now my disclaimer, every single time I talk about it is I am not a designated culture person. I know enough to be dangerous because my butt got handed to me when I was creating my digital marketing agency.

And we were very successful in building a culture where we were had other marketers from. Firms and companies willing to take a pay cut to work with us because they were like, you are doing the thing that I’m so excited to be a part of. Yeah. Right. And you created a system in an environment where I can see myself thriving.

Right. And that’s what we want. So like, we have the, here’s the strategic thing that you gotta hire, but also like you also have. Have the environment that they want to be in. So an example, when we talk about systems is there’s roles, but really the idea is more like you’re building a garden and your garden is producing certain plants produce different fruits, right?

So is the best way. So like you have a designated content creator. Um, you have a designated strategist and a designated engagement person and. Flows, the three things of marketing 1 0 1 strategy content engaging with your community. Right? Cause it’s no longer, it’s not just. Focus on creating content, toss it out there at hope.

It’s like, this is my digital networking room. I have to engage in it. So it’s three roles. So let’s say three separate plant plants that produce three different things. And it’s all about like cool as gardening. If you are a gardener listening to this, I’m actually not a gardener. I’m just a house plant person, but there’s like certain like lighting soil.

Staff that has to go into place with that. And if you got a, um, really like if you got a plant that just got infested with mealybugs, you have to like nip it in the bud. Otherwise it’s going into the rest of your garden. But the thing is a mealy, a plant that gets infested with mealybugs isn’t because it’s naturally prone to that.

It’s because it’s been neglected. And it got weak and then attracted bugs. So if I use human beings as plants, as an example, basically if you hire these people and you’re like, this is great, but then you start neglecting them because you’re too busy running off to the next thing. You don’t have time to focus on them.

You don’t actually realize that. Yeah. They’re your first hires. You still have to cultivate them leader. Person leader specific disclaimer, leader. Right. Um, and a leader does not just mean that you’re a title. Like every human being in a company can actually grow and cultivate to be a leader. It’s not the management title that dictates what a good leader is.

Right. So, um, but if you. If we’re talking that plan analogy and you neglect that person. That’s a, basically every form of neglect. If I use psycho is like a form of trauma and it’s like a paper cut. And then if you don’t fix it, it becomes septic. And then. Literally you lose an arm. Right? So like if I use that analogy, so like, so, and in plant garden analogy, it’s like it, weekends it get milli bugs, it becomes toxic.

And it spreads throughout the rest of the garden. We’ve seen toxic culture build up in that space. Right. So like all of that happens in a lot of times. What I see in business owners is that in our minds and I’ve been there too. That trauma that we subconsciously or unconsciously, um, instilled on our person through neglect because we’re just so busy is a very common example.

Um, it, we feel like it’s a failure on our end mm-hmm and human beings typically procrastinate and facing their shadows. In that space. Right. And so people are like, why does culture turn so toxic? If people realize they just need to like, you know, knee oil, the hell out of a plant that may have mealybugs.

And I’m like, well, how about before that happens? Actually watch it wilt and like, decide, whoa, is it the water? Is it the light? Is it the sun? Like, can we work with that first? You know? And so it’s it. And people ask like, why does it get to even the point of the mealy bug situation? And my reaction is. We are too busy.

Mm-hmm we don’t yes, yes, we are too busy. It doesn’t mean you have to micro water them. Right. Everybody’s different. Like I got these guys up here. They take care of like once a week kind of situation. And they’re like kind of grumpy and I’ll check on it weekly. It doesn’t mean you check on it like the next day.

Right. It’s just like you check on it and you base it on its goals. Right. But it’s when you don’t do anything for like 10 weeks. And then you’re like, what happened? That you’re like, yeah, but I check on my plans. I have a hundred plans. I check on my plans daily and I’m like, how you doing? You? Okay. Like, we talk to them like, and that’s okay. And that’s what you do in a business too.

Lauren: Yep. I love that. I love that analogy. There were so many golden nuggets in that little amount of time. I mean, I think my biggest takeaways were. um, that you really need three different roles for marketing, uh, that you need to water and nourish your garden at all times, depending on what plants

Cause I really, I really do see so many CEOs and business owners who, I mean, I had a client last week, actually go. You know, what I realized through our work together is that I’m the leader. And I looked at him and I said, what? And he goes, well, I mean, I know I was the leader, but I didn’t actually realize.

That I had to be the leader. Like I have to actually like do the onboarding, take the time to slow down, to do the things, to set the team up for success. And I think a lot of times when you’re hiring somebody, you’re just like, oh, it’s great. They’re taking this off my plate. I can be done now. But then you forget about the nurturing and setting them up for success because if you don’t.

Then to your point, it’s either gonna build resentment or toxicity or frustration, or they’re gonna quit instead of taking the time to slow down onboard, train them correctly, and then really get the most bang for your buck. And so, you know, we’re, we’re about to wrap up our episode, but I think that really.

I loved all the analogies and the awareness about how marketing, isn’t just creating content and putting it out there. It’s about, you have these, you said it’s so great. These breakout rooms, um, at this huge conference and you get to go engage where you want, and it’s really about building the community.

Cause I think, you know, I’m still, maybe again, I’m not a marketing expert, so I’m not as well versed in all of this, but you know, I. As a business owner, I think I still thought we were in the days of turning it out and letting it go into the ether. So, so much, so much great stuff. Um, do you have any last little tidbits or thoughts you wanna share before we wrap up?

Ruoyun: I think as business owners, we have a natural drive to go beyond the next level. Right. This is a re that’s, like instilled in us because literally it’s like, we are the breadwinners, we gotta, we gotta get it together. Like we gotta do it. Right. That is not the expectation of your next hire. Hmm. That shouldn’t like, yeah.

It’s like basically asking your kids to be, you. Mm, when they’re like 10. Yeah. Like, why are we purifying children here? Right. Like that is, that is what it is like. And people are like, well, why can’t we do that? It’s like, if you want someone that’s gonna come in and take it and roll with it, hire a consultant.

Because all the things where it’s like onboarding, setting expectations, setting up for success, we demand. That when we bring on a client now, and if you’re, uh, if you’re listening to this and you’re a freelancer consultant, or you’re working with one and they never demanded that, that may not be your best partnership going on because you’re gonna be wanting more and then they don’t tell you, and there’s no expectation set.

And then it turns into a hot mess. Right? So it’s like, I think it’s the thing to consider. expectations, set them up for success, whether you’re working with agency or working with, um, an individual person in house, it’s the key nugget that you talked about earlier, which is you gotta pause and invest some time.

Into it. Mm-hmm and it’s a delayed gratification. Right. Um, you’re not gonna like instantaneously get gratification in that, but it’s going to save you a ton of potential fires if you just sit down and think through things deeply.

Lauren: Yes. Yes. One of my very favorite quotes, which I say to my client, All the time when it comes to team is unshared expectations are nothing more than premeditated resentments,

Ruoyun: so that, Ooh, that needs to be like a quote on the back of your wall, on like that just like needs.

That’s good. That’s good. Right?

Lauren: I should, I should print it on cards or something and give it out. But I mean, it’s just it’s well, especially when you’re building a team like. Like taking the time to really, like, I kind of think of it. Like sometimes you gotta downshift to Upshift like, you really just have to.

The moments set up to set you up for success. And I think you hit so many nails on the head and I mean, holy cow, this episode has been chalk full of amazing marketing magic. I think my brain actually hurts. Um, but I was madly taking notes. Uh, if you wanna know more from Lauren, be sure to check out her YouTube channel.

Um, And tell us Rouyun, how else can listeners connect or get in touch with you? Because I know that if you are listening to this podcast episode, I’m sure you’ve got questions and wanna know all the things.

Ruoyun: Yeah, you can find out all my social links or going into your social platform of choice on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook.

I’m not on Twitter. Um, that just no on Twitter for that there. No, uh, and I’m not on TikTok. People are like, wait, you’re not on TikTok. I was like, do I even need to be. That’s no, but if you want to, you can always go to my website. It’s RX U consulting.com. Um, there are blogs, YouTube links, all that jazz is up there and yeah.

Amazing. Thanks for having me.

Lauren: Thanks for coming. And I think one of my last biggest takeaways is. If you don’t have a CMO, even if it’s a fractional one, somebody who can put all these pieces together, get yourself one, because it’s gonna save you a lot of time and energy moving forward because goji are there a lot of moving pieces.

So thank you so much for coming and. Joining and telling us all these things, you guys got a little, a little snippet of how our dinners go. So, um,

Ruoyun: yes, we talk about all the things. Oh my God. We just need to do like a muck bang on my YouTube channel and we can continue this conversation on there.

Lauren: there you go.

There you go. Well, thank you again. It was so fun having you and talking all. Things that’s it for this week’s episode. I’d love to hear from you and your biggest takeaways. So make sure you’re following along. Tag me on Instagram at its Lauren Goldstein or LinkedIn, or wherever you hang out on the interweb.

Thanks so much for listening and we’ll see you next week.

Lauren: So which part of your business needs love and attention? You might be wondering that. Hmm. Here are your next steps.

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