Busting Through Imposter Syndrome To Stop Playing Small With Your Business With Guest Expert Hillary Weiss

Lauren: You’re a high octane business owner. You’ve got a team on paper. It looks like you’re rolling in success, but there’s a voice inside of you. Whisper screaming. This isn’t sustainable, something feels off and I’m gonna lose it off.

Sound familiar. That’s where I come in.

My name is Lauren Goldstein and I’m the CEO at golden key partnership. I help top level executives like you avoid burning out and burning down as you’re scaling up. How by harnessing your superpowers, finding and hiring your ideal. And then simplifying the heck out of your business operations. That was easy.

It’s my mission. And the mission of this podcast to help you see operations in a whole new light to help you diagnose the real root cause of your company challenges and to bring your business back to a healthy flow and profit, they call me the business doctor, and this is the biz doctor podcast.

Welcome back to the show. I’m so excited about today’s show because I have special guests, Hillary Weiss, and we are gonna jam on something that I see stop a lot of female business owners from having a bigger impact, myself included, which is imposter syndrome and playing small. So stick around if you wanna know how to break up with this bad boy.

On today’s episode, we’re gonna talk about the entrepreneurial rollercoaster, what it takes to be successful, how to outwit the devil of imposter syndrome and how to step into the spotlight and stop playing small with your brilliance. It’s going to be an episode you do not want to miss. Now this episode is especially close to my heart because I am lucky enough to not only be friends with this brilliant lady, but I’ve had the pleasure of experiencing her brilliance firsthand as a client with her amazing power position service, because I realized not that long ago, just how much my imposter syndrome was, keeping me stuck.

But before we dive into today’s juicy goodness, let me properly introduce my expert guest. Hillary Hillary Weiss is creative director, positioning, coach, and founder of statement, peace studio in Hillaryweiss.com. She’s also the co-host of cult. Favorite YouTube marketing talk show Hillary and Margo yell at websites.

Hashtag ham. I just have to say is one of my very favorite things on the internet. So go check them out and has heard how her work featured on business insider the next web, the observer, and more, since 2011, she’s helped thousands of brands all over the world. Get seen and heard and make serious cash through her one-on-one client work.

Writing coaching and videos nowadays she’s on a mission to help more small businesses to find their statement piece, AKA the bold point of view that makes them radically relevant to their perfect people. Bottom line y’all she’s a bad ass boss, lady making waves, and I’m so honored to have her on the show.

Welcome Hillary. 

Hillary: Oh my gosh. What an intro? Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be here. Thank you so much for mentioning our work together. It’s such a pleasure to work with you. Uh, we have so much to talk about today. So when you invited me on the podcast, it was just an immediate, full body. Yes. Can we do it tomorrow?

So really, really excited to be diving into all this that I think so much for having me. 

Lauren: Of course. Thanks so much for joining and yes, I know. I’m just, I’ve been looking forward to this episode for. Ever. So why don’t we, why don’t we dive right in and not speak? Can everybody waiting? So let’s talk about this entrepreneurial rollercoaster.

Mm-hmm I think that sometimes with all the success we see online, it’s hard to realize that entrepreneurship comes with highs, lows, and everything in between. And I think you actually have a fun way of labeling this phenomena. Don’t. 

Hillary: Do I . Do you have it in your notes? I have so many silly clips, you know, for the business, the entrepreneurial rollercoaster, but one period of the entrepreneurial rollercoaster that we talk about a lot is the nonsense gap.

Um, which is that last 70% of any project. Um, but are, is that what you were referencing? Should we dig in there? Yes, 

Lauren: we should definitely dig in there, but I [00:04:30] think I’ve I’ve I saw it many moons ago. Something about emo something or other. 

Hillary: The entrepreneurial emo phase? Yes. Okay. Let’s, let’s talk about that.

And then we’ll talk about the nonsense gap. Yes. Okay. Can’t wait. So this is something I talk about with my clients a lot, and just people, colleagues, people I casually meet in the online business space. And I think there is this idea sometimes in business, especially when you start out and things start going.

That the line is always gonna go up and to the right. Um, but business is a lot more ebbs and flows, peaks and valleys. The tide goes in, the tide goes out, et cetera, nature, metaphors. Um, but I think the, you kind of hit a few points in your journey that are kind of universal. Um, and the entrepreneurial emo phase.

I did a whole episode of my, uh, coach Susan Hyatt’s podcast about that, um, where it’s basically the moment when you are in business for two to three years, you’re kind of making good progress. Um, but then all of a sudden the shine starts to wear off a little bit um, on the industry, on your work, on who you work with on the habits you see other people have.

And this also happens, especially in an industry like the coaching industry, which I’m. You know, very active and, um, that there gets to be frustration with like sometimes the nature of the work itself. Coaching is, uh, the example I use because it is unregulated. Um, and there’s a lot of, there can be a lot of issues in the space.

A lot of spaces, you know, vulnerable people who can be caught up in difficult situations. Um, I also work in the marketing space, so sometimes people will use marketing tactics that are. Super great. Um, and so you start looking around and you’re realizing that not everything is as it seems. And so I call it entrepreneurial email phase because I think every business owner, especially every opinionated business owner, um, can start looking around and seeing what’s wrong.

And if they are like, I was in my entrepreneurial email phase, you start writing about it and sharing about it and pointing it. And that’s actually a wonderful tool to start conversations, to find people who think like you. Um, and I have no regrets about that era of my business or my content strategy.

However, um, the reason why I call it the entrepreneurial emo phase is it’s very much, um, sort of like, I don’t know if you had an emo phase, Lauren, I certainly did a hundred percent amazing, you know, simple plan was on the charts. Good. Charlotte was number one. It was a whole era. Amazing. Um, but the reason why I called the emo phase is because it’s a little, like when you’re in that phase in high school where you kind of, you kind of get to that darker place because you’re getting a little bit more aware of the world you look around and you see like the ills of the things that are happening, we’ve taken for granted.

You realize that there’s more going on under the surface. Um, and so, you know, you start wearing all black and a little. Knife necklace. And you start on ironically listening to my chemical romance, I guess. I don’t know who decided that was the route, but that’s how we do it here in the good all us a . Um, but, but I think the big, the reason why I call it that is because it is in some ways a maturing of the business, but also in some ways, It’s very clear when somebody’s going through this phase, because they don’t necessarily have a total grasp on why things work the way they are.

Cause they can be, you can be convinced that XYZ thing you’re seeing is wrong or XYZ thing you’re seeing isn’t working, but the longer I’m in business, the more agnostic I become about. So much, obviously not the unethical stuff, not the lying cheating stealing. Absolutely [00:08:00] not. That will never be okay. But one example I like to use is when I was in my entrepreneurial email phase, one thing that I used to rail about a little bit was how many emails people would send during a launch sequence.

And I was like, and I I’m a copywriter. I don’t know why I took that route. I was doing more website copy at the time, email wasn’t as big. This is like probably 20, between 2014 and 20. Teen. So people were just starting to get wise. Um, but I was like, why are these people sending so many emails? Why am I writing so many emails for these launches?

if the product is good, you don’t need to send so many emails. This is so frustrating. And of course I had no idea what I was talking about, but I was very convinced I was correct. um, and it. One of those moments where it wasn’t until I had to step forward, step up to the plate and start doing this work for myself to sell my first course, my first program, my first thing that wasn’t one to one service basically exchanging deliverables for dollars.

Um, and that was such a wake up call realizing like, Oh, we need to send between seven and 10 emails because people need to be reminded 50,000 times before they buy . They need a lot of information. This is just how buyer psychology and human psychology works. Um, and there were a bunch of, there were some big things that I’ve hold the same opinions on, but I’ve, I’ve shifted so much in my understanding of business, having been in both chairs now having been the creative service provider and contractor, cause I was a copywriter for 10 years before I was doing the work I do.

Um, [00:09:30] and switching into that role of being the CEO. And I know this is something that you have people do so beautifully Lauren really moving into that space of, okay. I’m actually creating things for people. I have an audience I need to sell to what actually works. Um, and so often the stuff that you see in your email face that you’re like, why are you posting so much, it’s annoying, have no relevance to the overall.

Purpose of business, which is to make money, you know, and I think, and it has no like the, your opinions on how people might be perceiving things and or how you perceive things from the outside can differ so far, so much from. What’s actually happening in the business and you see this on both sides of the coin, right?

Sometimes you see people who are like, we’re doing seven figures and they’re making no profit and they’re spending every dollar that they have. Or you have people who you look at somebody who’s like, man, they always post XYZ. It’s annoying. Not for me. And they’re making tons of money, helping so many people with their little janky, whatever it is.

So there’s you realize? I think the more. In the roller coaster of business. So many times you don’t know what you don’t know, uh, and you can make your best guess, uh, and you get more discerning and smarter about it as time goes on. Um, but I find the email phase particularly is important, cuz you need to learn to be discerning you start the business in the business world.

And you’re like, it’s like, um, you know, that motif where people are getting off the bus in New York city, the girl from the Midwest and she’s carrying her little suitcase and she’s like, ah, I’m in the big city and that’s how business can feel sometimes. Um, but then as you become more discerning, you figure out what you like, what you don’t.

And then as you continue to mature, uh, in your business and in your experience as a CEO, as an entrepreneur, you start to you release judgment a little bit, but you also start to think, say the old, a Dodge that frustrates so many people when they’re talking to a seasoned marketing strategist, which is, should I do XYZ.

And their answer is always. It depends. So , that’s my very long answer to the entrepreneurial emo phase. 

Lauren: I love that. I love that. And that’s like such a good segue into the nonsense gap.

Hillary: Oh yeah. You want me to talk about the nonsense gap? Yes. The nonsense gap I find. So what I don’t think entrepreneurs.

Lotted is as courageous a lot, but I don’t think people realize how much courage in stamina. It actually takes, uh, to execute on something, particularly because the longer you are creating content products, programs offers in your business. The more you start to see your own patterns. Uh, the imposter, if you starts with the imposter syndrome and you have to be like, shh, no, and you get about, you know, 70, 70% through the project.

You’re almost there. You just have a few more things to tie up or like a few weeks to launch and all of a sudden everything starts coming up. Again, all those doubts you started with all those uncertainties, all the, the good, the bad feedback that might happen. All the worst case scenarios start making so much noise in your.

And that’s why I think a lot of entrepreneurs get a pretty far with a lot of things, but end up dropping a lot of things. Um, one, because sometimes you gotta kill your darlings, but two, because that last 30% is so hard. It’s like the last few miles of a marathon you’ve come so far. And you still have so far, you feel like you have so far to go, even though it’s still a fraction.

Um, and the nonsense gap again is basically that period of time. You’re gearing up to launch. You’re just about ready and all of a sudden you’re like, oh my God, Wade, what if everything is wrong? What if I hate it? What if everyone hates me? What if I screw this up? What if people say it, people with eyes, um, and you know, there’s so many things that will fly around your head as you go through the constant constant process of creation and the vulnerable space of putting yourself out there and selling.

Sharing from this, this open place that you have to, especially when in the business, you’re both the, the face of the business and the product, especially as a creative service provider, as an educator, uh, as a coach consultant, product creator course developer. Um, and so it’s a really interesting experience coming to.

To terms with the fact that the nonsense gap exists. And it’s not always like your intuition, trying to tell you it’s wrong. Sometimes it’s just your little fight or flight trying to, uh, protect you from the lions outside. But it’s been a while since we’ve actually had to deal with lions outside the cave.

So it’s such an important practice to be able to name it, which is why we called it the nonsense gap. 

Lauren: I love that so much. And it speaks to me. I remember when you did. And Instagram live about this. Yeah. And also y’all, if you’re not following her on Instagram, you are missing out. 

Hillary: Come see me. I do. I’m taking videos of doing pull-ups recently, but there’s other content.

Lauren: I promise there’s other content. It’s like literally the highlight of my Instagram days. Um, but I remember when, um, When you started talking about this and I was like, oh my God, that’s it. That’s it. That’s why I’ve been secret launching for years. 

Hillary: yes. That’s the other thing, like the nonsense gap will make you pull the punch.

Um, and that’s why you have people who are like, I’m gonna launch it or they get. One or two days in, and there’s no sales or not the sales they expected. So they pull it so much of entrepreneurship is having that stamina to take it across the finish line. And sometimes like, yes, there will be some things that like, it doesn’t work out and you like quickly close the doors and you’re like, no one saw that.

But overall. You need to be in the practice of finishing what you start in business. And that’s really what separates, I think, uh, the women from the girls in so many, in so many cases, because also if you think about launching as an exper, just as an experience, not even as like a sales push, you know, the first time you launch something and public.

It’s often, you’re not gonna have your highest sales on that first launch. Usually, you know, it’s brand awareness. It’s a chance for people to get to know that you even offer this thing. It’s a chance for you to explain the theory behind it and all that good stuff. Um, and so you have to do things over and over and over again.

It’s usually not to at least the second or third launch that you really start to master how to sell this, how to frame it. Um, the, the product has to. Go through a bunch of rounds before you can really get it into fighting shape. So it works for the people taking it. There’s so much that needs to be tested, tried and iterated.

And I think when we envision ourselves as entrepreneurs, sometimes we have this ex expectation that we’re just gonna poop out. Perfect things. All the. Time. And there’s just never going to be a moment where we fail people or screw up or need to improve something. And so if we’ve, if that happens, which inevitably it will, because if you are in the creation process, that entrepreneurship requires like, of course there’s gonna be stuff that works and stuff that doesn’t.

But I think especially women because of this, the imposter syndrome, we all struggle with P we take that as a sign that we shouldn’t be here or something is wrong when in reality, Actually you’re doing everything right. You’re getting exactly what you need, which is the data about what works, what doesn’t, what does your audience actually want?

So you can continue to refine. 

Lauren: I love this so much. I, I know this is where the term launch and learn came from,

and it sounds like, so one of the things, you know, As a recovering perfectionist. I love to get ready to get ready, to get ready.

Hillary: To get ready you’re list maker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m a list. My to-do list have to-do lists. Yep. Yes, exactly. 

Lauren: Just they need backup. Yeah. Um, and so like, it sounds like the way to like, Kick this sneaky devil imposter syndrome out the door is to actually just really start launching and learning and getting the data and not being afraid of that other F word feedback, because yeah, that’s actually how you’re going to create something that’s even better and it’s gonna serve your audience.

Like what other, what other ways have you seen to be really effective to. You know, just take this imposter syndrome and shove it out the door with all its luggage. 

Hillary: I with all of its luggage? The first thing I think the most useful piece of advice I ever got is that the imposter syndrome voice never goes away, but it does get quieter.

Um, and I think we did a Handon episode on this ages ago and, uh, the, the agreement we came to was that the only way out is through with imposter syndrome. And I think the big challenge, especially because it’s such a topic of conversation. In the women’s space. Some people can get so absorbed with talking about their imposter syndrome and thinking about it and trying to work around it.

And like, it’s always at the forefront that it takes over. Um, but it’s one of those things that the more power that you give it, the more power that it has, uh, which seems obvious. But I think that a lot of, again, women in particular, when thinking about their imposter syndrome are, are taking it as a, an item of consideration in the overall progress of their business, of their creativity, of, of their, their career.

I find that it can be a, there’s a little bit of romance and being like, oh, I couldn’t possibly. My imposter syndrome. Well, no, I’m so I’m just very Del I’m a very specialist flower. I’m a very delicate flower and my imposter syndrome is much louder than everybody else’s. Um, and so I cannot do it. I’m going to secret launch, like I’m going to do I’m.

I want to sell without selling. How do I do that? And you, you can’t, that’s the problem you can. Um, but I think it’s, it’s twofold. The process of selling is deeply vulnerable, especially as I mentioned previously, if you are both the, uh, face and the product, and regardless selling something that you’ve made and believe in is deeply vulnerable.

Um, and I think again, if we take the stance that, that vulnerability, the imposter syndrome, the nonsense gap, the doubt, isn’t a bug, it’s a feature it’s just gonna be there. Um, and I found for me, the sooner I accepted that the, the easier it became with time and with reps to, I, I can’t even use the word, overcome it.

Um, but to let that voice be quieter and quieter and be able to put it aside, I think Brene brown talks about, uh, working, working with fear like this. Mm-hmm where it’s like, listen, I understand that you’re trying to keep us safe. I appreciate that. You’ll always be here, but. Cannot drive right now. You are not in any state to drive.

Look at you. You’re like a trembling Chihuahua . Um, so I didn’t no offense to chihuahuas, but, you know, um, but I think, and really, and I talk to my clients about this all the time, because again, I think imposter syndrome creates the illusion that something is wrong. Um, but it’s just a part of the process of being in that vulnerable space of selling, of showing up in your content of being present of sharing your ideas.

Like anything we, Easy to feel like, oh, it’s so much fun to get out there and like do this in a public space and blah, blah, blah. Um, and do it on social media. Isn’t it great. And it is, but you reach that point. I think when you, when you start to do it, where you realize that you’re like, oh no, I’m up on stage.

And everyone’s looking at me even if they’re not, but that’s that like cold splash of water. On the back of your neck that you’re like, oh no. Um, and that’s where a lot of people stop because they feel like no one else is feeling that feeling that it’s a warning that they shouldn’t be here or don’t belong here.

And that is so the opposite of the case and really to the point Margo and I made, you know, so many years ago, really, the only way out is. Through. And I think that’s the meanest part of the whole experience of imposter syndrome, because unless you grit your teeth and get, and work your way through the swamp over and over and over until, you know where that swamp is on the map and you can be like, all right, swamps coming up, like put my bags on my head.

Let’s. Scope, um, until you do that over and over until you choose in to working with that imposter syndrome and willing to be with it and let it go quieter and quieter as you build the data to prove for yourself that your work is worthy, that people want what you have to give, that people are interested in what you have to say.

Then only then. Can the imposter syndrome voice get quieter. Um, and you also have to give it space to, cause I think especially when you’re prone to anxiety, sometimes you can go fishing for that imposter syndrome. I know that’s my problem. Um, where I can, I’m like, I, I,  I think I likened it to stabbing myself in the leg mentally.

Um, because I’m like, wait, if I don’t feel the imposter syndrome, if I’m not a little bit terrified, am I still gonna do a good job? And that’s the next, I think iteration, once you learn to dance with imposter syndrome and fear itself is to, sort of drop it as an indicator that you’ve tried hard enough.

Um, and that’s the practice that I’m in now is letting myself be confident, is letting in, letting myself trust myself and it’s taken, you know, 11 years to get here. Um, hopefully it takes everyone listening a lot shorter amount of time. Doesn’t have to take you over a decade. Um, but that’s, that’s the, those are all sort of the key elements.

I find myself talking. So often when it comes to imposter syndrome. And I, I really think that it is an insidious, insidious little beast, especially among women in the business space. And, uh, I think also the more we talk about it and the more we see it as something that’s just kind of there, the less power we give it and the less we can feed it.

Lauren: I love that. Oh, there was so much goodness in that three things. I’m taking away. Now, my imposter syndrome is named Tichi and she is a Chihuahua oh my God. 

Hillary: Yeah. Oh my God. I did. I made that joke. I was like, I’ve an imposter. I’ve been fixturing my imposter syndrome. Cause some people are like, give it a name, like give it a mean girl name.

They give Regina, George. And I was like, I’m gonna name mine fru. And it’s a shit suit. I really. Humping legs. So that’s how I picture my imposter center, which is much more effective than picturing, you know, the [00:23:30] new routine of George . Yes, 

Lauren: yes. Oh my God. So great. Uh, the second thing that comes to mind that I love you just talking about this is the age old adage, that what we resist persists, and it sounds.

Like the more you resist the imposter syndrome and not talking about it. Like the more it’s gonna stick around and hold you hostage. Yeah. A hundred percent. And that’s like being hostage to your imposter syndrome. 

Hillary:Not great, not great at all. Um not at all. And I like that you, it’s absolutely a hostage situation.

Like it’s a prison of your own making because you, it makes you so afraid. And I wanna validate people listening because there’s nothing wrong with you. If you feel that way, it’s a byproduct of vulnerability. Um, but it’s up to you to choose out it’s up to you to. Decide to sort of continue moving forward even so, but yeah.

Hostage is a great way to describe it for sure. Yeah. 

Lauren: And then the third thing that I’m REM I’m reminded of is this funny little thing called the gap. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the gap and this is not like a mind the gap from Londontown, but it’s more of like, the gap is the space between where you are, which is generally your comfort zone and where you want to.

and the gap is where all the growth happens and where all the magic happens. Yeah. And where you like are in this like wobbly. Like I think of it. I think of the gap as like a newborn full, like a horse that’s like trying to walk right after it was born. It’s like all wobbly and falling over and you’re like, oh no, I just like, can I just crawl back in?

It was nice and warm in there. this is weird. Right. And so I think, yeah, absolutely. Exactly. Exactly. It’s like, no, no, this was great. Um, and I just, I see, even with my clients, I see a lot of them. Who are so uncomfortable, comfortable. Yeah. Like they’re like, I don’t like my business right now. My team is, you know, not performing or so much is still falling on me or I know we could be doing things better, but this is like a known quantity.

So I don’t like it, but it’s known and I’d rather stay here where things are not working. Absolutely. Take the risk of like, I don’t know, having a dream business and dream team mm-hmm and like actually making a bigger impact and keeping more profits. 

Hillary: Absolutely. Yeah. So absolutely. I just love that. I think, I think too, like, I love that you raised that point is the, in the fear of the unknown.

Cause we often talk about like taking the leap as starting the business in the first place and like daring to do that. But there are also a million leaps you were going to have, you were gonna just throw yourself off so many cliffs and entrepreneurship and to your point. It’s just all the clips it’s basically base jumping, spiritual base jumping is what, uh, is what I, without a para parachute with no parachute, just para sometimes, sometimes you go ki flat, uh, but sometimes you fly and you’re like, wow, I wasn’t even wearing a parachute.

I’m I’m impressed with myself. Pegasus right here. You, you find out you’re super woman or Pegasus actually for that one. All of a sudden you sprout a horse butt and wings and off you go. Um, but I think that you’re right. And I see this too with so many of my clients where the familiar feels so much more secure than the, than even an improved future.

Um, and I think, um, sometimes we can get a little gun shy with that as entrepreneurs, because like you try, you fail, you try again, you fail a little better and you try some more and you succeed. Um, I think this is actually something I’ve noticed now that I’m like in my mid thirties. You know, moving, moving through life in business, been, been in business a long time now.

Um, and I hate being new at stuff. Mm-hmm like, I don’t, I don’t like it. I don’t like it anymore. I’m especially when you get to a certain point in your career for like you’re established and people risk. Respect you. And then all of a sudden, you, like, I don’t know, take like a salsa dancing class and you have two left feet and it’s like, do you have any idea how much people on the internet respect me for something totally unrelated?

You know, it’s it’s, I think there can be that part too. Like it’s not. Fun to be new at stuff, but this is, this is, this is the, this is the shadow side of entrepreneurship in so many ways. Like you have to be willing to do both like the glory, the money, the accolades, the clout, all great. And one and the creativity, all incredible.

But then there’s also the imposter syndrome, the, the base jumping, um, the. Situations and everything that kind of, and the, the struggling to be new at something or shift in a new direction. Um, it can be hugely intimidating, no matter how long you’re around. So I think it’s really getting your mind. And I know you do this with your clients, with your work, uh, with neuroscience and NLP is because it’s really so much mind and matter, uh, in business mm-hmm , but you know, mostly mind, which is interesting.

Lauren: Yes, it is. And like something that you and I have talked about in our sessions is the other sneaky bed fellow of imposter syndrome, which is the comparison game of where you’re like, oh, this person similar to me and they’re doing this. And like, what did you say to MES the week for you?

Hillary: How’s your info diet going for 

Lauren: yes, it’s going great.

It’s going great. I’m just sitting under the blankets with a flashlight scrolling. 

Hillary: Instagram hoping I don’t catch you. Yeah. Mom banging on the door. Like I could see your light on, I could see your light on.

Lauren:  Um, but it’s like, it’s so it’s like the blessing and curse of the digital age we live in where you can see everything.

Yeah. And, and the thing that I always like to remind myself is somebody many, many, many years ago told me don’t compare you’re behind the scenes to everybody else’s highlight real. 

Hillary: Absolutely. Right. Mm-hmm . 

 Lauren: And something that I’m a little bit soap boxy about is like, when somebody’s like, oh, I have a seven figure business.

I’m like, great. Is that, is that like grocery home? Like what, what are we talking about here? Exactly. Exactly. If you’re gonna come brag me on the internet about how you had a seven figure launch and you took home $10,000, that’s not impressive to me. Yes. But if you had a seven figure launch and took home, like.

$700,000 or seven figures. Yeah. Like let’s talk. Yeah. And so I think that so much of like the imposter syndrome is like taking a step and being like, okay, I am unique. I do have a gift. It is necessary. And I think that that’s like, really, what I love about your work specifically is like, Really taking that moment to like, take your seat and say, no, like I deserve to be here and I wanna stand out in the market.

And so like, tell us a little bit more about what you’ve seen with your clients and how you work about like really helping women take their seat. Own their power position, which I still love. Vaguely sounds like a sexual position, but that’s okay. Yeah, it does.

Hillary:  Hey, it was gonna be assumed the position actually power position is the more tame name.

That’s my, that’s my coaching packages, uh, power position. Cause it’s positioning coaching anyway, for those following along at home, 

Lauren: for those of you that don’t know that we have a really awesome sense of humor, you are welcome. Um, so yes, I  just, I just, I love. I love this program that you have or service that you have.

Okay. Cause it really, I feel like, especially with women business owners, like to your point from a couple minutes ago, Like how many of us are really not making the impact we could because we’re afraid to like, take our seat and assume the position . 

Hillary: Yeah, exactly. You’re right. Walk us through that. 

Lauren: Walk us through that.

Hillary: Okay. So a lot of what I do, especially. So there are everybody, every single client I’ve ever worked with has an issue with [00:31:30] comparison, just. Because that’s how social media works. That’s how the algorithm functions like, Hey, you like this thing? What about somebody doing it even better than you? Would you like that?

Would you like to see that? 

Lauren: Would you like to feel worse yourself?

Hillary: There’s there’s the thing. The thing about social media to your point. Absolutely. And, and everybody know everybody like that. ADA is so, so valuable that don’t compare you’re behind the scenes of someone  else’s highlight reel. Absolutely. But we still do it and there we are still do it. Um, so I find one of the things I find myself telling a lot of clients is they have to, they have to prune who they’re following.

Like all of those people who make them feel. That the other problem is I think a lot of women, because we are nurturing beings, so to speak, I suppose we’re like, well, I don’t wanna unfollow them. It’s my problem. You know, it’s not them. like, they’re not doing anything wrong. And to the point to their point, that’s true.

Um, but it’s, it’s so important to get really ruthless about your digital environment. And this is something I figured out a couple of years ago. Um, this was actually my coach, Susan Hyatt’s advice from her book. And I remember she was. Get rid of anything in your environment that makes you feel like, like crap.

Um, except she didn’t say crap, you know, but, uh, Marie condo that, yeah, exactly. And so I remember going through, she, I started with my desk and I got rid of a bunch of like business books that I’ve never read and was feeling every time I looked at them, I felt so guilty. Cuz I was like, I’m not reading, I’m not a business.

I’m not a business. Cause I’m not reading the businesswoman books. Like who am I. Donated all those suckers to Goodwill. Um, and like, so I got rid of so much like old, like workout equipment, old, like aspirational jeans and my wardrobe that I haven’t fit in since I was 19, I was holding onto them for, I don’t know.

There’s always, yeah, exactly. Exactly, exactly. But the last time I was that small, I was in college living off like peanut M and Ms. And diet Coke. So it’s not, wasn’t a good situation for anybody . Um, but the. The other piece of that was really cleaning up my social media, who I was following. And I had some guilt about unfollowing.

Some people who I really liked and respected as people, but having them in my virtual space made just being on social media. So horrible because I. It was the comparisonitis and it’s, it’s a million little things, right. Like I would never, I could never take a photo that beautiful or like I could never make a PO like that post was so thoughtful.

I should have said that, um, you know, oh, everybody she’s sold out already. Wow. Like my stuff is, um, you know, we’re having a harder time. This launch. Mm-hmm what, what am I doing wrong? Something’s wrong with me? Getting really ruthless about saying no to taking in that kind of content. Cuz it’s, I, I dare say, you know, it’s an addiction.

Like anything else, we can become hungry to see those things in front of us because it, it plays into our imposter syndrome and it reminds us like, Oh, no, we were right. We are really worthless. It’s true. It’s true. Let me scroll some more of this content so I can remind myself because if I don’t tell them myself, how will I ever succeed?

Um, and I think that it is a miscalculation also to spend a lot of time in business, looking around at what your competitors and colleagues are doing. Um, because then you get into a. Case of info overload, then it’s basically like flooding your neurons with information that you don’t necessarily need.

And isn’t relevant to you. Um, I am, especially when I’m launching or creating something new or writing. copy for myself, which I still do. I put myself on a, like, you are for a bit to look at your competitor’s website’s diet. Like I am blocked. I tell my team, I’m like, don’t let me look. Don’t let me talk about it.

Like I just need to stay focused. And my absolute best work gets done when I put the blinders on and focus about on what’s in front of me. And one of my favorite stories, um, in this category happened for my very first course, all the way back in like 20 16, 20 S. Many moons ago at this point, um, revealing my age, but, uh, I had created a coffee rating course, and I was so proud of it.

I had taken like three years to create it and I also retired it after 18 months, but that’s another story for another time. Next episode, it was a fire hose. Um, but as everyone’s first course is, but, um, so I remember working on the sales page and this was. Like copy hackers was really getting big. Laura Bell gray, I think had just come out with the copy cure.

Like there were so many copywriting programs out there and I was like, okay, let me just, just for, just for like information about what’s happening in the market. Let me look at all of these and read them like five times a day while crying. No. And so before I write my sales page, because if I don’t do that, how will it be good.

Um, and so I look at all these different sales pages, and I just remember every, like the, the key term at that point, cuz conversion, copywriting was kind of  new as a concept. Like it’s basically kind of rebranded direct response copywriting. Um, but you know, that’s neither here nor there. Um, but everyone was talking about copy that converts on their sales page.

Copy that converts. Make your copy. Conversions conversions conversion. And I was like, ah, okay. In order to be seen as professional and awesome. This has to be the key, the focal point of my message. Cuz otherwise people won’t take me seriously and they won’t know that this is for real. And if I don’t use the word conversions, am I going to be credible?

So I, so I created this sales page. That was like, it was, I was happy with it. I was like, okay. You know, like based on what I’m seeing, what seems to be working for other people. Here’s how I’ve structured this and it’s gonna be good. And I my coach at the time famous words. Oh my God. I sent it to my coach at the time.

And I remember being like so excited for her to be like, great job,

Hillary respectfully. Who sales page is this.  And I was like, it’s mine. And she was like, this is not you. I was like conversions. I’ve never heard you say a thing about conversions. And I was like, well, I’m supposed to. And she was like, no, mm, wrong way to do it. Because people are gonna come to learn, copy reading from you to learn copywriting from you.

You know, they see the way you move through the. Uh, they see how much fun you are, how much passion you put into all of your projects. Um, how like silly you can be, the way you see things is a little off beat and a little different, and that’s all valuable. So put your disco dress on and go write me the real sales page.

And I was like, no. Okay. Fine. So, and that was, and she was AB she was absolutely right. And I have taken that lesson with me through all subsequent sort of launches and I get praised. I get a lot of great feedback, excuse me, about how my stuff is unique and how I like frame things a little different and say things a little differently and see things a little differently.

And that’s because. Ruthless with avoiding taking in too much of other people’s information and too much of other people’s stuff, because your business is supposed to be unique. You know, you’re supposed to have that clear point of view and supposed to be able to share it fearlessly and in order, but you cannot do that if there’s so much noise and static going on, because you’re so concerned with what everyone else is doing and how you measure up, it makes you scared to show up in the, in the way that you naturally should.

That makes people naturally magnetized to you. Really never forgot that lesson. It’s a lesson I had to learn more than once, but that’s the, that’s the biggest, the biggest breakthrough I. The like gentle knock 

Lauren: then the two by four, between your eyes. I’m familiar with it. 

Hillary: Exactly. Right, exactly. Right. 

Lauren: I love that because I remember when I first started my business, I had those same thoughts of like, how is anybody gonna take me seriously?

So I like, I wore the suits and I was like very buttoned up. And like, I was like, so constrictive because I. Like that was the only way that people were gonna take me seriously. And then I just felt back to being a prisoner.  Like I was like, yes, this is not me who talks like this. And now. You can, one of you can see like analogies or one of my favorite things or creative curse words, not my favorite, my absolute dirty joke.

Hillary: Favorite? My absolute favorite. Yep. yeah. Um, 

Lauren: and so it’s, it’s like when you. Give yourself permission to show up authentically to your point vulnerably that’s also when the imposter syndrome is the loudest going. Yeah. Who do you think you  are? No, one’s gonna take you seriously. All the things. And so I, I just, I love that so much cuz I.

Hillary: Yeah, because that, well, that’s where the good stuff is. It’s sort of like when you’re reference pullups it’s like when you’re in the gym and you’re like getting through a set and you’re like, you got 15 reps to do when you get to 10 and you’re dying and everything is burning and you wanna stop, but that’s actually where you get the most muscle work in.

Like that’s where the work is. That’s where you get your gains. Same thing with imposter syndrome a hundred percent. Like when it’s the loudest that does not mean. Um, and it also takes practice to differentiate. And especially for women, especially women who are, you know, very attuned it, you have to practice to separate and not to get to woo.

Here, the imposter syndrome from your intuition. That’s a big one. Um, because we can often mistake imposter syndrome for like, oh, something doesn’t feel right. No, you’re just scared, calm down, like you’re alright. No, one’s no one’s coming to get you. The lions are not outside the cave, but I found for me cuz I’m, I’m a very like gut instinct kind of person it’s in my human design for, for those, for those following along at home splenic awareness.

Um, but uh, I have a really strong. Gut. And so for me, for a while, I was mistaking my imposter syndrome and self doubt and insecurities for like, I don’t know, define yellow lights. Um, and so once I sort of put that once I put that to the side, a yield sign, um, once I put that to the sign to the side and I was like, okay, I hear this noise.

I hear this racket, but you know, and this is something that I say to myself a lot when I’m in the nonsense gap. And in that last 30% is it’s like, I’ve thought this through, I’ve worked hard on this. Uh, often I’ve spent months on it already. Like I’m going to see this through. If I screw up, it’s a lesson and great data, I’m gonna take away so many, so much information.

If it goes well, it goes well. And I celebrate by myself, you know, a new piece of jewelry. Um, but I find that. That the, the willingness to trust yourself. And I love that you brought, I just, yeah, I’m obsessed with the fact that you brought that up because when you’re in that vulnerability, when you’re in that space of like, should I say, this is the way I would say it, but should I say it this way?

Are people gonna take me seriously? Are they still gonna like me? Like when you’re in that. Pocket that’s often where the best stuff comes from. And it’s so annoying. It’s so annoying. Cause you can do the basic stuff. The how tos, the like six steps to optimizer, blah, blah, which is great. But people, because there’s so much noise like that, it’s the stuff that’s real.

The stuff that comes from the heart, the stuff that feels a little bit scary to say, when you’re sharing your point of view, your perspective, your specialty and your expertise. That’s where the magic is. So you have to be willing. You have to learn how to live in that little pocket, you know, bring your little, bring your little like comfort blanket and French fries, but you gotta go in, uh, because ultimately it’s not, there are, I always, I had a mentor who once said, you know, your business is what you do.

But your brand, which is what everything we’re talking about here encompasses, uh, your brand is what makes you different from everybody else, doing exactly what it is that you do, um, and learning to master. And that’s so much of what we do in power position, learning to master what that space is and looks like.

Um, and then how to share it, how to talk about how to frame it. That’s, that’s where the work is. That’s where the best stuff comes from. And so you really gotta learn, as I said, to, to go tunnel into the pocket instead of avoiding. And just realize that the nonsense gap is what it is. Go ahead and base jump.

Uh, and there’s, there’ll always be another opportunity in in the worst case scenario. 

Lauren: I love that. I love that. And I think when we were, we were chitchatting and planning for this episode you were talking about. Sometimes we think that we have to be the biggest, the loudest, the boldest, the funniest, but what really, what you’re driving home is that to make your.

You have to be yourself because that’s when you’re gonna find the people who wanna work with you. Cuz if you’re, if you’re pretending to be Laura or mm-hmm any other copywriter and then they say yes to you and then they’re expecting this experience and they get something different. Like that’s where I see a lot of.

Like friction points. And one of my favorite quotes is unshared expectations are nothing more than premeditated resentments. Yeah. And so when you’re talking about yourself and you’re presenting yourself authentically and vulnerably, then the chances that your client’s expectations about who they’re gonna be working with and who you’re gonna be showing up for them are gonna be aligned and you’re not gonna have.

Hillary: um, shall we say some of the very interesting conundrums that I had when I first started working together? Make and switch. That’s what it’s. Yeah. Yep, yep, yep. Yeah. And I think that exactly the most annoying, the most annoying advice in the branding space is like, just be yourself. It’s like, okay, what.

And what does that even mean? How do I do that? That what, um, and I think that when we talk about vulnerability too, I just also wanna underline the fact that like, vulnerability, like, be that feeling of vulnerability as we talk about it and like being yourself and, and sharing more of yourself in your opinions, doesn’t always mean like, here’s this terrible thing that happens to me when I was a child and like how it ties into my business, which you see a lot of on LinkedIn recently cringy that cringy.

Oh yeah. But I. Like the act of presenting your ideas, period. Whether it’s a joke, whether it’s a story, whether it’s a vulnerable share, like literally a vulnerable share, um, that is all a vulnerable space, you know, that is all a little snippet of your personality. Um, and when I think about. Encouraging people to show up post themselves.

That is a practice. And so much of that I think is tied into really learning to notice your own ideas and how you think I actually have a freebie around this called the statement based framework mm-hmm um, where you just learn to sort of study and notice your own ideas and regarding the branding.

Absolutely. To your point, I get asked this all the time, because. Was I came out of the womb with the Godzilla of a personality. Like I I’ve always been just like a giant monster. It was very strange being such a small child and having a personality that’s like skyscraper big, got me into some scrapes over the years.

I will tell you what. Um, but most notably when I was three, my family was at, this is a size story. My family was at the fair and I apparently like jumped out of my stroll. To go and talk to like the Carneys running the duck hunt. And they couldn’t find me for like 20 minutes. And I was just there in my diaper, just like elbow on the little bar, like having a chit chat anyway.

Um, so I have a big personality and I think a lot of people when they come and, and talk to me about branding and have questions about it, they wanna sort of emulate the like big energy stuff that comes naturally to me. Mm-hmm and I always encourage. If that’s not who they are not to do that. It’s, first of all, it’s not necessary.

It’s not gonna be comfortable when it comes to showing up as a personal brand, as a thought leader, as the face of your company and the CEO, it is really, really important to learn how to, you know, show up as yourself, of course, but I find the real key for creating a standout. Is sharing your idea, sharing your expertise in a way that is radically relevant to your target.

And that’s the big difference? I think a lot of folks think they have to be the biggest, the loudest, the brightest, the most colorful, the sparkliest, because otherwise they’re gonna get caught up in the noise and nobody’s gonna notice them. Um, but if you think to yourself about your favorite brand, some of your favorite people.

Um, or some of your favorite companies and brands, period. Not all of them are the ones like banging the symbols and like, you know, doing the clown show. They’re just not like that would be exhausting to follow everybody like that as a clown show myself. Um, and I think that what I try to train my clients to do, and I know we’ve been working on this, you know, as we’ve been working through power position together too, is figure out like, what is your area that you feel most excited to talk about?

Be about like what kind of idea. Do you run counter to the industry at large, that you have, what is the stuff that really lights you up? What’s the stuff that you’re like, if this was banished from the earth tomorrow, it would be too soon. Like all of that matters cuz that’s how you be yourself, is learning to notice those ideas, those opinions, those points of view, and then figuring out how to frame them for the people that you’re you most want to work with.

Um, and one example. You know, um, I like to divide that like standout brands into kind of three categories. So we have mm-hmm um, and you can do, uh, standout content in three categories. You can do as many of them. There’s no like perfect ratio, but, uh, the disruption, disruption, uh, disruptive content where it’s like things that run counter to industry trends.

You’ve been doing this wrong for years and nobody knows that kind of content. Um, the other one is dive deep and this is a really big. Um, I find a lot of folks, especially, uh, create service providers and consultants can often find themselves defaulting to the basics. And the how-tos like, I can’t tell you how many copywriters looking to work with six and seven figure businesses.

I’ve had to pull back. From posting a what is copywriting post I’m like people, your people know, like you don’t have to tell them. Um, but thinking about diving deep, really getting specific about where your audience is and the kind of problems they’re experiencing and the kind of things they want to know about.

So you can get really nerdy. Um, a master of this is, uh, Shannon Matton of the social bungalow. She’s on Instagram, really awesome human beloved client of. Um, and she, she gets really granular  with her tips and her strategies. She shares incredible stuff in a fabulous way. Like on Instagram, that’s so often like such a basics 1 0 1 platform, because that’s the stuff you think is gonna reach a lot more people.

Um, but she works with a very elevated tier of client and it works. So well for her mm-hmm um, so really not being afraid to do that. And then the third category is delight. Um, so it’s, you know, how do you be yourself? How do you, but sharing by not just sharing the disruptive stuff, not just sharing the nerdy stuff, but also sharing a little bit of your personality.

Like, what are your hobbies? Mm-hmm what do you enjoy? Like, I, you get me I’m you mentioned my Instagram. If y’all follow me, you will see business stuff. Outfit, photos. Uh, gym videos and like a lot about antique jewelry, cause I’m a big anti antique jewelry and I’m wearing a coin from the civil, uh, from 11 years after the civil war with my marriage initials on it, as we speak, um, it’s just a passion of mine.

And, but being able to share the things that delight you, that excite you, if you’re a cook, you know, if you have, if you’re, let’s say you love hook gardening, if you have like, if you have like a weird obsession with niche, Films. Um, all of that is worth sharing and not even necessarily to, to tie into business it’s worth sharing because people wanna get to know the person behind the business.

It gives them a chance to get kind of a window into more of who you are as well. So, When we say, just, just be yourself in your brand. Like that’s when you’re like, what does that even mean? That’s a way that I like to break it down for people and not every post has to be like, let’s me reveal myself to you.

But mixing those in is how you start to create. Standout concept and a standout brand. And that’s how, again, sharing that kind of stuff always through the lens of what’s most relevant to your target is going to be what stops the scroll, not necessarily the biggest or the loudest, like, think about when your, if your target market is, is scrolling, LinkedIn, what would be a miracle of a headline for them to see in a.

You know, like what would be a meme that would make them laugh? What would be a story about what they’re getting wrong or that relates, or like what they’re getting right. That relates to them at their particular level. Um, and that stuff stands out just as much, if not more than being the biggest, the loudest, the funniest, the noisiest in the room.

Lauren: Oh, this is so juicy. I could literally talk to you about this for ages and the takeaway I’m, I’m getting. All of this is to make imposter syndrome. Your friend. Yeah. Gotta go through it. Yes. Ma’am make it fun. Get vulnerable, know that it’s completely normal. Yep. And the more you resist it, the bigger that Gremlin’s gonna get.

Yep. Um, so before we wrap this. oh, this amazing episode up. Do you have any last tips or, oh my goodness. Nuggets or anything you wanna share? Um, 

Hillary: absolutely. I think the biggest, the biggest thing I can ever tell people is practice makes presence. Like we talked about consistency. We talk about like, consistency is important.

Some people will tell you what’s not. It is, um, practice makes presence. And I think that’s another piece of the importance and actually like the vital do or die nature of learning to be with imposter syndrome is because if you wanna build something really amazing, and if you wanna do things your way, you have to have the courage to show up and be persistent and just.

Practice practice, practice showing up. And I think that’s why for so many business owners who wanna be thought leaders, speakers, authors, social media, is such a great platform to start to play on because it gets you in front of a bigger stage, but also you can put your phone down and walk away from it.

So no one can technically see . Um, so I think that practice makes present. Don’t be afraid. Like it’s a really, it’s a reps thing. If you’re in that nonsense gap in that imposter syndrome pocket, that’s not always a sign to quit. That’s actually a sign you’re probably getting closer to the good stuff. So thank you so much for having me, Lauren.

You’re awesome. And if anyone wants to come say hi to me on Instagram, I’m uh, at H C Y over there. 

Lauren: Yes. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for joining. I don’t know about y’all listening, but I’m gonna go back and listen to this to squeeze even more juice out of it. Cuz this was solid gold and yes. Thank you. Go follow Hillary.

You’re so welcome. It is so entertaining. Also. She might put you on your close friends list, which is even more juicy. Goodness. 

Hillary: Oh yes. That’s where my deep dives live. Yes ma’am I. I love it. Um, 

Lauren: you did mention a, um, a freebie that you have to help people with some of these things. So you wanna just do a quick little intro and I’ll drop the link in the show notes, but do you just wanna tell.

Then what that is. Absolutely. 

Hillary: I’ll. I’ll tell them where to find me where to find that. So I’ll put on my radio announcer voice. I do this at the end of every podcast. If you ever listen to my other podcast episodes, I’m gonna do this on every single one. It’s my favorite dad joke all radio announcer voice.

Go, you can find my freebie, the statement piece framework over at hillaryweiss.com. That’s www.hillaryweiss.com. Um, it’s on my homepage. it’s on my home page that a popup. And it’s basically an idea generation tool for creative entrepreneurs who wanna create more standout content who want to, as I was saying before, Study their own mind, figure out what their own ideas even are, because to your point about always taking in so much more outside information, the real valuable stuff is when we get quiet, start to notice our own ideas.

So that’s what that, freebie’s all about. Go grab it. Yay. Come say hi to me on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, if. You are on any of those platforms. Uh, and you liked this episode. I would love to hear from you, go ahead and drop me a DM there. I always love meeting people. I run all my own socials, um, and I always love connecting with new folks.

So I’d love to hear, you know, one takeaway, something you loved, or maybe something you hated about the episode. Come say, hello. I’m on Instagram at HC. We that’s where I spend most of my time. And I would be delighted to meet you and Lauren, thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun. 

Lauren: Of course, of course it was so much fun.

And that is it for this week’s episode. Thank you so much for listening in it’s because of listeners like you, that I embarked on this podcast journey. So I would love to hear from you and your biggest takeaways, or as Hillary said anything you didn’t like so make sure that you’re following along, tag me on Instagram at its Lauren Goldstein or LinkedIn, or wherever you hang out on the interwebs.

Thanks again for listening. And we’ll see.

So which part of your business needs love and attention? You might be wondering that, Hmm. Here are your next steps.

Head to goldenkeypartnership.com Or the show notes below to schedule your Diagnostic Deep Dive.

Lauren: Thanks for listening to the Biz Doctor Podcast. If you love the show, please share it with your colleagues or tag me on social media, especially LinkedIn and subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcast.