Having More Powerful And Meaningful Conversations (And Relationships) With Guest Expert Patti DeNucci

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Lauren: Welcome to The Biz Doctor Podcast, my love letter to business owners the world over. I’m your host, Lauren Goldstein, award-winning business consultant and advisor whose fondly nicknamed the business doctor by my clients. My clients call me the business doctor because I help business owners who are burning the candle at both ends, diagnose what is actually keeping them stuck in and buried under the day-to-day of their business, and then formulate a business treatment plan to help them adjust their business and team to fit.

And most importantly, support them in having what I call true entrepreneurial freedom. If you’re ready to look at your business in a different lens and elevate yourself out of the business operator in the trenches 24 7 to visionary business owner and leader who can take a breath vacation and have more fun making an impact with your business.

Then grab your favorite beverage and your earbuds, and let’s dive into our latest episode.

We’ve all probably heard that infamous quote from Tim Sanders. Your network is your net worth. I heard that many years ago, and it’s always stuck with me, but to be. The idea of building my network deep, not just wide, aka having more real relationships and connections with the people in my network felt a little daunting and scary, especially as a self-diagnosed introvert.

And yes, introverts can have a podcast too. I see the people who have this skill and do this successfully and wonder to myself, what secret power do they have that I don’t? That makes them so good. Well, if you’re anything like me looking to make better connections with the people in your personal and professional life, then you’re going to love the episode we have in store for you.

Today we’re going to dive into how we can all converse and connect with greater authenticity, ease, and confidence. Welcome back to The Biz Doctor Podcast. I’m your host, Lauren Goldstein, and joining me in studio today is esteemed author, speaker, and conversation and connection expert Patty D. If you wanna improve your ability to converse and connect with the humans in your life, this is going to be a goldmine of an episode for you.

Now, before we get to the real juice of this episode, let me properly introduce my guest here in studio. Patty Nucci believes it’s not just how many people you know or talk to, it’s the quality of your conversations and connections. She’s the author of the Award-Winning Success Guide, the Intentional Networker, attracting Powerful Relationships, referrals, and Results in Business, and has just released her new book More Than Just Talk, the Essential Guide for anyone who wants to have better convers.

Patty is also a speaker workshop facilitator and consultant organizations such as Microsoft, Rodan Fields, H E b, MGM Resorts, Hewlett Packard, and the Texas Conference for Women and many others have invited Patty to help their teams and event participants learn how to attract experience and enjoy more meaningful conversations and more rewarding connect.

Bottom line, Patty is going to help us peel back the many layers of conversing and connecting well, which honestly is probably the most important and the least trained lifework skill. So get comfy and turn up the volume. Welcome to the show, Patty. 

Patti: Thanks Lauren. You’re a great time. Oh my goodness. Usually you and I are, you know, chatting over a beverage or a meal or something, so this is a. Different way to do it. 

Lauren: I know, I love that. And I, I also love our, our pizza and, and wine connections too. And honestly, I’m beyond excited to have you on the show because I know this is a life skill that I’m still building and [00:04:00] so many others struggle with. And honestly, the way you present on this topic makes it so simple, yet impactful.

And in fact, that’s how we met and became friends. You were talking at a conference I was attending, gosh, back in, what was it? 2000? 

Patti: 2014. I don’t know. It was a while back. Oh, it was a while back. It was. It was a while back. Which, which is crazy to think, and I personally love your story and how you got into this impactful work.

Lauren: So why don’t you take a minute and share a bit more about your path, how it led you to being here. The two-time bestselling author, speaker, and consultant for professionals and a passionate advocate for better convers.

Patti: Ah, such. You know, I can do the long version of the short version. I’ll do kind of the medium version with the highlights.

Yes. I grew up in a small town in northern Minnesota, an iron mining town, and my dad and grandfather were the local Chevrolet dealers. And they built their business. In fact, my grandfather started the business during the Great Depression. Wow. All the bills were new. No one had any money, and I don’t know what he got into him, but he just loved cars and wanted to talk about them and sell them.

So he built the business literally one conversation at a time. And he was so good to all the people in our town. We had people from all over the world in our town, people from Italy and Cornwall, England and Norway and Serbia, and he, you know, he didn’t really care what language he spoke, but if he could, you know, get a little English going, he loved to talk about cars.

And my dad took over the business, followed in his footsteps, made my sisters and I all work in the business partially. I think to teach us about business, but also to teach us about dealing with people. Mm-hmm. Answering the phones, you know, dealing with customers that were coming in and needing a spark plug or something, ordering a part or needing some service done on their vehicles.

And, um, of course we used that money not just to buy clothes and the things we wanted, but we paid for our college education that way too. So it was a really great setup. And, you know, we got to see our dad and our grandfather in action and, um, We didn’t call it networking back then, but they were brilliant at it.

They were just good conversationalists and connectors and community people. So I had that great background. Um, went to school in Wisconsin, um, came to Texas following a boy. Started working in marketing communications. Opened my own practice in 1989. Um, and you know, gradually, I don’t know how this really happened.

It was a very gradual progression, but I was doing really great with my business and. I knew networking was critical to that and people started asking me to go to coffee to ask me how, you know, how I did my networking and hey, we should come speak at our group and will you share your success tips? And there was a point where I think the economy tanked every time the economy tanks, I do something new.

Um, the economy tanked. I think it was. 2008. Mm-hmm. I had an empty nest that was about to happen. My son was in high school. I needed a project, a good project. So I started writing a book and that’s, that book became the Intentional Networker. Mm-hmm. Which launched my speaking career, my professional speaking workshop, facilitating career taking concepts from the book, things that didn’t make it into the.

Sometimes and creating one book. And of course you can’t stop there, you have to write another one. People kept asking me more questions, like, tell me about the conversation piece. Like, what do I say? What do I do? And that prompted my new book more than just talk. So, you know, I, I guess I want, one thing I wanna say to your listeners is, you know, your life, especially if you’re young, your life is gonna take some interesting twists and turns and follow that path.

Because if you follow. Your strengths and the areas where you appear to have an edge. Um, if you can do that, you’re gonna have an interesting career and it’s gonna, it’s gonna be fun and you’re gonna, it is gonna be meaningful too. 

Lauren: Oh, I love that. And that’s, I just, I love how fascinating your story is and how everything kind of sets you up for this.

You know, it’s amazing moment, isn’t it?

Patti:  It really is amazing that, you know, you just keep following the path and, oh, well this is a good idea. And you know, I’m not saying you just, oh, I should change gears every two years, or it’d be all over the place, but, but life and, and careers take us in interesting places for sure.

Lauren: They do. They do. So I think the first place that I wanna start for us, Understanding what the definition of a good conversation is, cuz I think all of us might have a slightly different idea of what a good 

Patti: conversation is. Yeah, it’s interesting. I was just, I just did a, a presentation at a networking group, a women’s business networking group, and I asked that very question and.

I think a lot of the people who answered, and we had a little discussion going, you know, after people sat at their tables and talked with their table mates. And then we kind of opened it up to the GR larger group. And I think a lot of the people said the word connection. They want some sort of sense of connection.

And I think a lot of them said that answer because that was kind of an obvious answer. But, um, somewhat inspiration, somewhat support somewhat. Meaningful dialogue that is not, um, stuck in the small talk range and small talk. There’s nothing wrong with small talk. Uh, small talk is necessary. It’s sort of a warmup.

It’s where we, you know, feel each other out and see, you know, do I like this person? Do I like their presence? Do I like, you know, Their vibe. Mm-hmm. Um, but we don’t have to stay there. And that’s, that’s one of the issues is, um, that I think my book addresses is how do we leverage small talk and then how do we move out of it and take it in the direction that we want to take a conversation.

So different people, I very much allow. The reader of my book and the people in my who are participants in my presentation, I very much allow them to define, well, what do you want out of your conversation? Some people like Lively, some people like loud, some people like quiet. Some people like, um, fun. Some people like, oh, let’s talk about something deep and meaningful.

And we could have different desires with our conversation at different times of day, different situations, different settings. So I, I think connection is. The big piece we all wanna have. Um, and there are also some other best practices. Things like respect, things like authenticity, things like, um, kindness, graciousness.

There’s, uh, so many best practices that we can all get better at. 

Lauren: Hmm, that’s great to, to leave it in. The person who’s having the conversation’s hands and not create too much structure around it. Mm-hmm. Cause I do think there is, there’s a level of analysis paralysis of like, if I follow these five steps, then I’m going to be a good communicator.

And I think there’s a certain, a certain. Maybe five steps, but also I think letting 

Patti: it flow. This is the work of a lifetime. I mean, I’m, I’ve been studying this for 35 plus years and I’m still learning and trying to apply some of the things I learn. Um, And I think we all have so much room to improve our, oh my gosh, we have so much room to improve.

Beginning with the basics of, you know, greeting and acknowledging people in a respectful way, smiling, making eye contact, you know, looking up from our laptop or our phone when people are, In our office or, you know, have walked into the room. There’s just so much to it. 

Lauren: Yeah. Yeah. And let’s, let’s go there for a minute because there’s, there’s two things that I want, I want your, your thoughts on.

The first is I’ve seen, I’m just gonna call it a plague of trying to be interesting instead of interest ed. Mm-hmm. And then I’ve also seen a really. I’m, I’m what’s considered a geriatric millennial, so we grew, we grew up in the analog age, like we didn’t have social media growing up. I still remember dial up internet when we didn’t have Cardi, all the things.

And so like for us connection is, is different than I think what has. Social media has created that has created this disconnection. Oh, absolutely. So I’d love, I’d love to hear your thoughts on interested versus interesting. Mm-hmm. And how in this digital age of disconnection, like how that’s impacting relationships.

Patti: Yeah. The interested versus interesting. I think that’s been going on for a long time. And I, I actually say in my book, I think it’s actually okay to be interested and interesting, and here’s why. Mm-hmm. I think when we have natural curiosity about life, about people, um, and we go out and do things, we read books, we travel, we get out of our little worlds.

I think we become more interesting people and we are more interesting because our ability to talk about more things. Allows us to be more interested in what other people are doing. For example, um, you know, being able to, to talk to somebody about what are the things that we have in common? What things do we have in common?

Do we both like travel? Do we like wine? Do we like books? Do we like hiking? What, what common ground can we find? And the more things you are interested in, um, make you more interest. If that makes sense. Mm-hmm. So the interesting, interesting, but obviously, um, our job as a good conversationalist and if, if we wanna connect with others, is not to walk into a room and become the most fascinating person in the room via what we say.

We can actually become the most interesting person and memorable person in the room by listening to what others have to say. I mean mm-hmm. Haven’t you, haven’t you had that happen where you’re in this, you know, social setting or networking event and you are able to share with someone and they listen very thoughtfully and thoroughly, and they interject just enough?

Or maybe they ask follow up questions, don’t you find them to be the most. Charming person in the room. Yeah. I mean, it so rarely happens for starters. So, so that’s, mm-hmm. That’s a big piece. Yeah. The interest and interesting is definitely an interesting dynamic. So the point of, oh, walking into the room and trying to be interesting, um, or try to be anything other than who you really are is gonna be a, a disconnect and it’s gonna be, in some cases, a turn off.

So, so there’s that. Mm-hmm. Um, I also wanna comment on what you said. You’re talking about being a geriatric millennial. I am. At the very end of the baby boomer. I was born in 59, so now everybody knows how old I am. And we, we grew up, we had f what we call feral childhoods where mom kicked us out of the house, literally.

Mm-hmm. Um, after breakfast on a Saturday, and we weren’t supposed to come back in until lunchtime when we saw dad’s car drive down the driveway. Um, then we, that was our cue to come home and eat lunch, and they, they kicked us out again. I mean, if we weren’t in the house, if the weather was anything, Warmer than 20 below zero.

Cuz like, you know, again, I grew up in Minnesota, uh, you’re outside and you’re on your own baby. So we as young kids started developing our social intelligence early. We, we made our own friends, we planned our own games and our activities. We, we made things up, we put on shows. We, I don’t know, we, we had such a good time and our parents were not involved.

And it wasn’t like we were getting in trouble, but I think our social intelligence started to. In different ways, in very much analog, very much no tech whatsoever. Mm-hmm. Um, and we learned. If you wanted to be a good friend, if you wanted to be accepted into the crowd, um, you, you were friendly and you were, you didn’t throw fits and start crying over every little issue and you didn’t run home and tell your mom that someone wasn’t nice to, you know, we just had our social skills started, started up young.

Whereas now I think the generation that grew up with screens has a. Um, they’re, they’re a little behind there. There may be a lot behind. Mm-hmm. And, you know, no offense to any of you young people. I, I envy you and I really want your wrinkle free skin, but, um, but it’s me too. Up differently. Yeah. And they have, they do some things really, really well.

Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, there’s a lot of things. I remember those things too. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But, but all of this can be learned. You know, anybody who says, oh, but I’m shy. Oh. But I’m an introvert. Um, all of those, first of all, an introvert isn’t about not being able to socialize. It’s that your battery’s gonna get drained.

Mm-hmm. And do you find this to be true, Lauren? After you’re around people, you need your, your me time. 

Lauren: Absolutely. Like one of the best things I did for myself and my business was actually having a one day a week, what happens to be a Saturday where I like digitally and people unplug and I just read a book or I sleep in, or I.

I find cleaning and dishes cathartic. So that’s what I do and it just recharges my little battery.

Patti:  Yeah, there, there it is. It’s, it’s about your battery. And then shyness is different than introversion and shyness. Mm-hmm. Is something that can definitely be overcome. You know, maybe you didn’t have a good social role model in your life to help you with learn some social skills to build your confidence and.

You know, extrovert,  introvert, ambivert, which I am, I’m half and half introvert, half extrovert. I love this. Afterwards I’m gonna take a nap, you know, I do my nap naps, that’s my survival tip. Um, but those are all things that can be overcome. People that say, I absolutely cannot socialize, I just don’t do this.

Well, I don’t do pushups very well. And so, you know, if I wanna get better at that, I’m gonna have to start doing more pushups. Very, it’s, it’s practice and. Yeah. 

Lauren: Yeah, it is. It’s just, it’s just you’re building a, a different muscle. Absolutely. So, something that I’m curious for our audience is, cuz I, I wanna dive into the benefits of having a good conversation in your personal life, but something I think that I see my clients business owners struggle with, it’s how do you, how do you create those meaningful relationships with your employees, with your team, without crossing.

Like the line or like getting too familiar mm-hmm. With them. And like having like a, a dynamic shift where you’re no longer the boss and you’re the friend and then it just creates some weirdness down the line. 

Patti: Yeah. That’s so tricky. I think that’s so tricky at work anyway, even with your colleagues.

Mm-hmm. Um, I think a huge thing that has to be, um, considered is obviously respect. What is, what is appropriate in your private life? You know, what’s, what should remain private and what belongs in the office? And I. There’s a really fine line there and it’s, it’s hard to define sometimes. Um, I think. In a new era where we’re all trying to be more authentic, we’re trying to be a little more vulnerable, trying to be more human.

And I think that’s great, but I also think there are times when people are totally unloading information about their personal lives that is not appropriate for that audience. And it may be cathartic for you to unload, uh, you know, during the, in the break room or whatever, about some horrible thing that happened to you.

But is that really the right place? The time and place is that productive? How is that gonna help? The relationship, the setting. Um, so, so that’s tricky. But, you know, I remember having, uh, years ago, my last real job, I remember having a boss. She was a woman, she. She was our friend, like we did some things together socially.

Um, but I think she always commanded the respect as the boss. Um, and she did it by showing us that she cared about us and wanted the best for us. Much like say an older sister would, or an, I wouldn’t say mom cuz she wasn’t, you know, she was kind of maternal, but, um, she was protective of us, but she also corrected us when, when.

We went into territory that really wasn’t appropriate. She gently mentored us in that area. And I think every different company culture, organizational culture has to find and define and communicate those lines on what’s expected. What, what are things that we are going to do here at the office for the betterment of the business?

And then what are things that need to be left at home? Yeah, it’s, I love that having, that you’re making anybody uncomfortable in any way. Um, and sometimes people need to speak up and say, you know what, I really, that’s kind of uncomfortable to listen to that. I don’t really feel like that’s, today is the day to be talking about that, or this isn’t the place.

Yeah. 

Lauren: Yeah. A  couple, a couple of ways that I kind of navigate this tricky situation is one, um, asking the question, um, are you looking for like a solution or are you just looking for. Like to vent or, you know, do you want me to listen? Do you want me to support kind of feeling out what they actually need in the mm-hmm.

In the moment, right. Because I think that’s important to, to your point from a few minutes ago. Yeah. Like, what is the intention of this conversation? What  is the 

Patti: intention? What, why are you asking me? Like, if someone asked you a question and you’re not comfortable with it, there are many ways to respond.

One of them is why do you, why do you wanna know? Or how is that app, how is that pertinent to our work life here? How is this pertinent to the meeting that we’re in? Um, if you can explain to me why you need to know this, I might consider. Sharing more, but if it’s not, if you’re just digging for dirt or if you’re just snoopy, which there’s a difference between being curious, curious is a great trait in conversation.

It’s really an awesome, it’s that being interested, being snoopy is when you’re crossing the line into information that’s none of your business, you know, money. Mm-hmm. You know, the, the intimate details of your love life, the, you know, the problems that your kids are having at school. I have one of my friends that I mentioned in my book, um, her name’s Karen Snyder and she’s a speaker and train trains all kinds of executives and professionals.

And she says when she has a problem, like a big problem that’s just gonna weigh on her and impact her performance, she chooses very carefully, three people. Who she will talk to about it. And it may just be, look, I just need you to know this is happening. I don’t need you to do anything about it. I just need you to know I’m a little distracted right now and, and I’m just telling you, and I’m telling two other people.

Or she may say, I’m telling you because maybe you can gimme some advice on how to deal with this. So I thought, I thought that was brilliant. It was a way to just keep things, keep the brush fire under control. Yeah. So it doesn’t, um, impact the productivity. Of the office, but yet allowed her to have like a little, um, a pressure valve where she has somebody she can confide in.

Because that apparently, you know, is an issue now too, where people don’t feel they have anybody to talk to. There’s some startling statistics about that. And PE people are really disconnected from each other. Mm. Um, you know, at their personal lives. And that’s why a lot of times they bring their personal.

Stuff into the, the office is because they don’t have anywhere else to talk about it, which is part of the issue that I’m trying to address is we all need connection. We need that connection.

Lauren:  Yeah, we do. And I think we were, you know, we were starved for it for a few long years and then, you know, absolutely.

This digital age is, um, is definitely creating that disconnection chasm. Mm-hmm. And something that.  You know, I try to ground myself in and, and share with my clients is, you know, there’s this power of presence. Like you can have a really great conversation in five minutes by being very present versus trying to like, check your phone or, right.

Or like, not be fully present. And so a question that I, I recommend asking is, do you have time to talk about this right now? Yes. Cause I think. With the digital age, because everything is so highly accessible and instant gratification. A lot of times we go into a conversation thinking the person has the time or the space or is in the right mindset to have that conversation and they’re actually not right.

Patti: And, and we, we want, it’s, we’ve gotten into this world where we want what we want right now, we, we instant, like you said, instant gratification. I need to talk about this right now when maybe it could be, Can we talk about this, like at the end of the day when I can stay here a little longer and spend some time with you?

You know, I have a, a friend who’s a, a consultant here in here in Austin, and, um, she literally shifted the culture of. A small company that was having horrible turnover and just the culture was just, things were not working out really well. And one of the things she noticed in just spending some time at the office and observing was that the person who was the boss, um, was in their office on their computer all day long.

And when someone entered the office, um, they weren’t even acknowledged. The person never looked up from their computer and. So what she said is, if someone enters your office, everything starts at the top. So we’re gonna work on you first. When someone enters your office, you, you know, announced or unannounced, you stop typing, you look up from your device and we can all use this advice.

Looking up from our devices is gonna probably be, you know, the biggest thing, the revolutionary thing we can do for our social relationships. But anyway, she said, You’re gonna look  up and you’re gonna greet the person. You’re gonna invite them to sit down, and you’re gonna ask them what’s on your. And you’re gonna give them your full attention.

And if it’s going to be something that is gonna require a longer conversation, then that needs to be established. Like, okay, I can see that this is an issue. We need to probably spend 30 minutes working on this, and why don’t we do that at two o’clock this afternoon when you know my, I’m back from lunch and, but the.

Simple acknowledgement, eye contact, a greeting, a calling them by name. Literally that shifted the entire culture of that organization. Everybody started treating each other with a little more respect because the boss was treating everybody else, you know, the employees with respect. So whatever we want from other people, um, I suggest that we start giving it in abundance and see if that starts to shift things.

Lauren: Uh, what a great story and a great reminder. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. You get what you give. Absolutely. For sure. Mm-hmm. So, let’s shift a little bit cuz  I, I know we’ve talked about, you know, what a good conversation is, which is determinant on the situation. But let’s talk about the juiciest part of this, which is how, having good conversations.

Like create power and benefits in both our personal life and our professionals.

Patti: It’s just, so this was one of the most interesting parts of my research in this book. I knew, I knew from years ago that anything great that’s ever happened in my life came as a result of a conversation and a connection almost always, you know, unless I read about something in a book that changed my life and that, that to me is another form of conversation, but, When we connect with other people, a lot of things happen.

Even if you’re the kind of person that goes to the grocery store and the dry cleaner in the coffee shop, and you’re greeting the clerk, you’re greeting the person that takes your dry cleaning, you’re greeting the barista that’s making your coffee, and you say, hello. Good morning, Bob. How’s your day going?

How’s things happen? You know what’s happen? If you  just spend two seconds acknowledging people and having a little banter, that literally changes your body chemistry. It, it, um, allows this, um, hormone called oxytocin. It’s our tend mm-hmm. And befriend hormone to start going through our bodies. And the thing about oxytocin is it doesn’t last very long in our system.

Mm-hmm. Whereas cortisol, which is our fight or flight hormone that lasts. Way longer. And so we’re mm-hmm. Our bodies are literally soaked in cortisol most days. So having that little burst of oxytocin, even from just a short friendly conversation with the bus driver or you know, um, your neighbor, you’re out, you’re upbringing your trashcan out to the curb and your neighbor is too.

If you wave at ’em and have just a few moments with them, that is going to not only improve your day, it’s probably gonna have a ripple effect and, Your neighbor’s day and his wife’s day and their kids’ day. Um, it is a positive, um, momentum builder. So we, it’s literally brain chemistry. So there’s also a huge study that’s been done at Harvard.

It’s called the. In fact, I have the, the clipping right here. It was in the Wall Street Journal a few weeks ago. Um, it’s the Harvard Happiness Study. I wanna get this right. Mm-hmm. Harvard Study of Adult Development has found that personal connections are the most important factor in long-term health and happiness.

That’s health and happiness. And they’ve been studying people for 85 years. So they have people who they’ve followed through their whole lives. And, um, certainly the happiness piece, the life satisfaction piece is great, but also you have a better chance of avoiding diseases like diabetes. You have a better chance of surviving diseases that could be terminal, and you have a much better chance of living a long, happy, vibrant.

If you are out and about connecting with people, making new friends, not just the same old friends that you’ve always talked to, but, um, it,  it, it literally improves your happiness and health. It is one of the number one, um, skills that is valued in the workplace. For example, if you are someone who is.

Skilled at talking with your work colleagues and clients about topics beyond work, beyond the business aspect. If you can small talk about, you know, a golf game or how about that? How about that movie last night? Hey, are you following the crown or are you reading this book, or whatever? If you can talk about a number of different things, even at work, you are considered a more valuable employee.

And Wow. Obviously in the networking world, um, you know, you’re a, a business owner. Um, when people like you, when they can talk easily with you, they are more likely to trust you and do business with you. Mm-hmm. So that’s mm-hmm. You know, the, we do business with people we know, like, and trust that yes, that is absolute truth.

Um, we’re more creative, we’re more innovative, we. Better ideas. We get out of our own heads and we start to expand our world of possibilities with solving business problems. We build our communities that way. Our families are stronger. Uh oh. It just kills me when I’m out and about and like we’re out at a restaurant and I see an entire family sitting at a table together having a meal, and they’re all on their phones.

It’s just, it’s just heartbreaking to me. It’s the worst. It’s heartbreaking. Um, Oh, like there’s so many benefits, and yet we have all these obstacles, like our technology, our laptops, our smartphones. Mm-hmm. We have mental chatter in our heads. We’re pretty convinced that we’re not good at this, that no one’s gonna like us that.

Um, we shouldn’t talk to strangers. They’re dangerous. I dunno. How is the dry cleaning lady dangerous? She’s not, she’s not dangerous. She wants to have a, she’s bored. She wants to have a conversation. I was showing my son’s wedding pictures to Gloria at the dry cleaners earlier this week because we have that kind of relationship and it’s wonderful.

Um, I, I could go on and on about the, but honestly, if you wanna be successful at work, if you wanna be successful, um, with relationships, with friendships, and if you wanna be healthy and happy and live a long life, start being more social. Get off your phone, pull yourself away from Netflix, um, start talking to people.

Lauren: Ugh, that’s, yes. This just warms my heart and. I, I agree completely. And in fact, you know, two of my favorite people that I see almost every day are my UPS guy, my male guy. You just chat about, chat about all the things, but how many people talk to their male guy or their UPS guy? I know.

Patti: Well, and you know, I, I, I can definitely sympathize for introverts where it’s like, Ugh, this sounds exhausting.

This is just too much work. And I don’t know, I don’t, uh, I mean, and I get that I have, I have that side of me too, where there are days I am totally peopled out. Um, but honestly, if you pay attention to what’s going on and if you start to practice again, it’s like the pushups. If you start to practice, start coming up with some questions or comments that allow people to jump in and join you in a conversation.

If you really admit it, you might admit that you’re feeling a little better. Like after you’ve talked to the u p s guy and WA just waved at him and you’ve been acknowledged as a human being. Doesn’t that feel good? Totally. 

Lauren: Sometimes great. It’s great. Sometimes he’ll see me walking cuz I am one of those weird people that walks places.

I’m a walking instead of drive. Yep. And  he’ll like honk at me and wave and it’s just, it’s so nice. 

 Patti: Sure. I talk to the garbage guys, the garbage guys, the recycling guys. I talk to everybody, thank God during the pandemic, if I hadn’t gone out every morning for a walk, you know, and granted we were keeping our social distance and all of that, but just waving across the street at a neighbor and just saying, how are you doing?

Are you doing okay? It, it just made it a little more survivable, um, from a social standpoint, you know, like, I’m not disconnected. And I’ve also found, uh, like I was in the locker room at the gym yesterday and just as I was leaving, a woman was walking into the locker room completely. I mean, just walked right past me.

No. Oh, hello. Good morning. Or excuse me, or there was no acknowledge whatsoever and I’m really starting, first of all, I really noticed that because I’m, you know, this is my job. Yeah. To pay attention to this. Yeah. But you get this feeling of being. Um, disrespected, you’re not acknowledged. And if people talk about, you know, diversity, um, equity and inclusion and, you know, let’s not have microaggressions and all that, and that’s really important work.

But I think if we all go back to the very basic of acknowledging people in our presence, saying hello, making eye contact, smiling, making other humans feel like other humans. You know, and that they’re important. They’re just as important, you know, them walking through the world is as important as us walking through the world.

I, I think that could be a really beautiful start to changing the way things are in the world right now. 

Lauren: Absolutely. So we’ve talked about the positive benefits I want to to ask you for, cuz it seems like even though there’s so many positive benefits and we know that people struggle with this, so what is stopping us and what are some like concrete solutions or ways that we can take, you know, today take away from this episode and I.

To help us start building that muscle. Sure. So we can have those more rewarding connections and conversations. 

Patti: Well, there’s, there’s a number of things. Um, like for example, if you’re going to invite somebody to coffee or to happy hour or to lunch, Make it in a setting where you can actually have a conversation.

I mean, so many places are noisy. They have bad acoustics, there’s loud music playing. The coffee grinder is going every 30 seconds. Um, setting and situation really matter. Um, so, so think about that. I think it’s  easy. We do things that make it so hard on ourself. Like there’s one thing I can’t stand is being at a party where the music is so loud that we have to scream at each other.

I mean, the one thing I have to protect my voice. And secondly, cuz I, you know, I use it for a living. But secondly, there we go. Um, I don’t wanna be screaming. I don’t want it to be, A lot of that is draining. That’s just physically draining to have to do that. Um, there. All kinds of, you know, ways that we can, um, move  past, like I said, some of the dialogue that goes on in our heads of, oh, no one’s gonna wanna talk to me.

And, and here’s a big one that I learned. It’s called assuming positive rapport. Let’s say you’re going into a networking mix and mingle event, and there might be some of your coworkers there or people you know, some of your clients, some of your vendors. Um, but there are also gonna be a lot of people you don’t know.

And so you are, chances are, are going to be talking to someone, um, you’ve never talked to before. And  if you can get into this mindset of assuming positive rapport, and I’ll explain what that is in a second, the conversation is going to go a lot better. And here’s what assuming rapport means, assume people are going to like you.

Yes, they’re gonna like you very. How often do you walk up to someone and start talking and go, geez, I hate this person? Never, hardly, ever, unless they’re just being a total jerk. Uh, most of the time we all want the opportunity to get to know somebody and. We all are interesting and we all have stories to tell and ideas to share.

And if we can stop this overly self, um, I’m trying to think of the word, you know, being just nervous and anxious and, oh, they’re not gonna like me. If we can drop that and get that vibe out of the way, I think our conversations are. So much better. There’s just, there’s a lot of ways to make, to get past the obstacles.

Get out of the house for,  let’s say you work at home. I work at home. I have to make appointments to get out of the house. Like I go to the gym really regularly. I see a lot of people there that I know. Some of them are my friends. Um, I make appointments to go to networking meetings. I make appointments to go speak obviously.

You know, book Coffee with Friends I haven’t seen, and now that the pandemic is over, we’re all having these amazing reunions, which is I think awesome. Um mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Lauren: So, um, I know we’re gonna wrap up here in a few minutes, but I wanna make sure I give you time to talk about your books. So you’ve got two books that I’m gonna link in the show notes, the newest book, more than just talk the Essential Guide to anyone who wants to enjoy better conversations, and then your oldie, but goody the intentional networker.

So just give me a little synopsis of how your newest book came to be. I know you alluded to it when we, when we started, but mm-hmm. Why this book? What’s it about and what can someone expect to, um, walk away with? From reading. 

Patti: Well, I’m super proud of it cause I’ve been working on it for so stinking long.

I mean, I really proud. Congratulations. I really, you know, I figured, I don’t know if I’ll do have it in me to do another book after this, so I’m going to, you know, just give it everything I’ve got. Um, the new book is essentially, I think the prequel to the intentional networker and my peer review team. I had like 15  people from all over the country in very different, different industries, different personality types.

Read the book and say wow. The networking book was fantastic for sure, but this book is more universal, more ages, more personalities, more. I mean, you can use it in your personal life too. And even, you know, in your life with your partner, your best friend, whoever, um, the book, here’s what the book promises.

I have an entire section on really getting into the deep, deep data of why we need to bother with this, why we have to get out of our, our little worlds, our little holes, our little cubby, little comfy area with the blanky. And, you know, anything we can stream that we want to and we can, you know, Watch cute kitten videos.

As for as long as we want to, um, we need, we need to get out of that cuz that’s considered the new smoking being isolated. Um, oh, and here’s a really interesting, did you know that Austin is considered one of the top 20 loneliest cities in the country? Really? Yes. It’s because people are living alone.

People are eating alone, people. Isolating themselves. It’s cr Wow. I wish I never would’ve gotten, cuz I feel like this is a real, I’ve lived here 40 some years and it’s a fun town. A lot of opportunities to get out and about. Anyway, where, where am I going with all this? Let’s see what my book Promises. It promises to really tell you why you need to do this.

It promises to give you some examples of why you’re probably not enjoying the conversations you want to be having. And a lot of them are easy fixes. Once you know that they exist, your life has changed. We have an entire section where you get to define what does good conversation look and sound, and feel like for you.

What, what are you wanting? And then we go into the part about how are you gonna get that? And we build a conversation toolkit for you with some, some traits, some practices, some easy tips, some. Overall strategies that you can start using some self-awareness exercises, some reflection, and, and then we continue on into, um, traits that make you more likable.

And some people will say, oh, well, likable, I don’t, you know, do I really wanna be likable? Who doesn’t? I mean Yeah, who doesn’t, who doesn’t? I mean, when people like you, they will do almost anything for you. And I am blessed beyond. Measurement with people who have been stepping up to do things for me my entire life, because I actually work at being likable and fun to be around.

Lauren: I like thinking you are very fun and likable. Thank you. Yes. Thank you, Lori. You’re welcome. 

Patti: Um, it promises, oh, there’s an entire section on listening, which something like 95% of the time. We’re not listening. We’re not listening deeply. We’re not really hearing, and there are reasons why. One is talking’s ease.

Tucking is expressive. It feels good. We’re unloading what’s on our mind, whereas listening is we’re taking things in. We already have a packed brain full of thoughts, and not only mm-hmm do we have our packed brain full of thoughts and we’re taking things in, but now we’re having a reaction, response to what is being said.

So it’s just, you know, if our heads could blow up like a balloon, um, listening makes it blow up a lot faster. So it’s harder. Yeah. Which means we have to practice at that. But are most of us, even if you think you’re a great listener, chances are you’re not. And here’s just, this is really painful. The smarter and more successful you are, the worst you likely are as a listener.

So the entire section on, you know how we’re going to grapple with that. One more thing I need to mention about listening  and being heard, like it feels. Bad. I mean, I, if you’ve never been listened to or if you started talking and the person interrupted or brought the conversation back to them, that feels really bad.

The, the long list of bad feelings that generates is not good. But on the other hand, if someone takes the time to listen to you, like for example, you’ve, you’ve been listening to me this whole time, Lauren and the listeners out there, My brain, the section of my brain that lights up when I eat things like cheesecake or a really nice glass of red wine or a nice cheesy pizza, a steak, whatever I find delicious.

That part of my brain, that pleasure center, is lighting up. I mean, it’s literally delicious, and I find then you are literally delicious. So it goes back to that being the most charm. I’m not gonna lick you or anything. 

Lauren: don’t tell HR no, HR 

Patti: don’t tell anybody. But I mean, when we do become the most charming person in the room, because  that feeling of being heard is just so rare and so rich, and delicious, and juicy, and wonderful.

Lauren: Um, yeah, it’s powerful. I love that. I love that. Thank you for sharing that and bringing it back to something we all love, which is food. Food.

Patti: And then here’s my favorite, my favorite section in my book. It’s what to do about Drainers and Downers. Ooh. Because I think a lot of people don’t start the conver, especially busy, ambitious people.

We’re not gonna start a conversation that is gonna be hard to finish and walk away from, or, um mm-hmm. It’s gonna drain us in some way. It’s gonna be depressing, it’s gonna get political, it’s gonna get offensive. How do we deal with that? And this section. One of my dearest friends from back home was a pastor.

We grew up together having a great time, you know, having our feral childhood together. And she and her husband were both pastors of a church for like 30 years, and she emailed me the other day and said, Patty, I just read your Drainers and Downers section, and I wish I’d  had this information. Her pastors at our church.

So, um, hey, that’s an endorsement from her.

Lauren: I, I love this. I love this. It sounds like it’s not, A book of theory and stories. No, but it’s actually giving you like concrete, tangible takeaways and maybe even like workbook styles. Yes, yes. Um, which sounds really, 

Patti: it’s, it’s a thick book. I’m warning you. It’s a thick book.

It’s not a dense book, and it’s part of the reason it’s thick. I, I included all my resources that turn, we’ll find micro print in the back, but I did a lot of reading and research and I read a lot of books and I talked to a lot of people and experts and listened to blogs. TED Talks and all that. And, um, I, I think this is a book that you can read front to back if you want to.

It’s a, it’s some, once somebody called it a masterclass on socialization, it’s like, wow, that’s, that’s awesome. That’s an endorsement. Yeah, that’s an endorsement. Um, or, or you can dive to the section that. Most appeals to you, which for a lot of people it’s the drainers and downers. Let’s start there. That’s the most painful area of our lives.

You, you can also find out if you’re a drainer and a downer. I mean, it’s, some of us, you know, we, it, it’s so self easy. Self-awareness Slip. Yeah, self-awareness. Um, you know, you can pop it open wherever you want to. I mean, it’s, we tried to make it fun. We, and when I say we, my editor and I, she’s a really good friend, Susan Pretty, she.

We had such a good time working together and we tried to keep it light. We tried to keep it, there’s some spots that still make me laugh and I’ve read ’em, you know, a hundred times. Not to say that I’m all that hilarious, but, um, when I turn it page and read this line, it’s just the timing of it is perfect.

So, oh, we tried to make it enjoyable. 

Lauren: That’s, well, that’s what you want in a book. Yeah. You want it to be enjoyable, goes quickly, but also is really valuable. 

Patti: Short chapters too sections with short chapters. Love that. 

Lauren: Yeah, love that. Alright. Wow. D I see why Patty is the expert on this topic and why I had her on the show.

Uh, whew. So, so much I could talk about with you on this subject. I feel like we could really jam on this for hours, but I could do wanna start wrapping us up. Um, and I know we’ve covered a lot, so tell me though, are there any last nuggets, like, or tips or a. Things somebody can do today or pieces of advice that you wanna share with our listeners that we didn’t cover, that you’re just like, Ugh, if I don’t say this, I’m gonna not sleep well tonight.

Patti: Oh boy. Well, I mean,  I think the magic in a conversation comes from the questions and, and here’s the thing, if people go to my website, intentional networker.com. Or Patty. Patty with an eye. Patty d nucci.com. Um, and they go to the free resources. I have the, this is gonna sound boring, but it’s, I swear it’s not, it’s the appendix out of my book.

And the appendix is a list of conversations, starting questions by, ooh, by sit setting in situation, by, by category. Like this is something at a professional. This is, you’re at a wedding, you’re at a, you know, neighborhood gathering. You’re at the gym, you’re out on a walk with your dog. Sample questions, and by all means, I could have made that section like 200 pages long.

Mm-hmm. Because the, the possibilities with questions, you, you, when you start collecting questions and paying attention to questions, that made for a good conversation. Um, You know, keep those in your back pocket when you’re going somewhere where you’re not gonna know anybody or wait, or where you think you’re gonna be with somebody that you have nothing in common with.

Ask them about their favorite teacher from high school. Ask them why they, how they ended up being a podiatrist, you know? How did that happen? Mm-hmm. What was the influence there? Once you get good questions in your back pocket, your conversations will change and they’ll. They’ll leave that repetitive, boring, mind numbing, small talk rut, which, you know, it’s okay to be there for a few minutes, but, you know, let’s not talk about nothing for an hour.

That’s,  that’s not helpful to anybody. Oh, so questions stop. Two words that are similar to a question and make for a good follow up is tell me, tell me more. Tell me about, mm-hmm. Tell me more about your career, your business. Tell me about where you grew up. Tell me about your family, you know, did. Are any of your family immigrants, they, you know, come, how many generations back does it go?

I mean, whatever you’re interested, tell me, tell me, are two magic words again, this being interested in other people and caring about  them? Yes. So that, that’s one. And then when it comes to listening, here’s some quick ones. 60 40 when you’re in a conversation one-on-one with someone, you listen 60% of the time, you talk 40% of the time.

Mm-hmm. You, you err on the side of listening more. The second one would be if you’re gonna talk, talk for 40 seconds, which you know, how long is 40 seconds? Well, you could practice how long 40 seconds is. You talk for 40 seconds and then. Stop, take a breath. Mm. Let the other person talk.  Um, another one would be the acronym.

Wait, W A I T. Why am I talking? Oh, yes. I mean, any of us who are really chatty or have been around people that just can’t stop talking. You know, you just wanna almost scream to the person, why are you, why are you talking right now? Why are you talking? Mm-hmm. But let’s reflect that back onto ourselves.

That’s, that’s the part we can. So, I mean, there’s some easy, easy tips there. You know, assume positive report, relax. People are gonna like you. They’re so worried about if people liking them, that they’re probably, they’re gonna like you. They’re more worried about themselves than you. Mm-hmm. 

Lauren: Totally. I mean, that’s one of, uh, that’s basically one of the four agreements, right?

Patti: Yeah. Don’t take anything. Assume don’t take any, yep. Don’t take anything personally. Assume people are doing the best they can. I forget what the other two are. Yeah, yeah. I’ll be impeccable with your word and Oh my gosh, I can’t believe I remember all these. 

Lauren: Yeah. And always do your best. And I, I love the, why are you talking?

That’s something that, why are you talking? Yeah. Was um, Um, grounded in me about like, what, what is the purpose of this conversation? Like, what is the intent of this conversation? And really figuring out like what you need from it, which is where mm-hmm. You know, we started this whole conversation, right. So, Um, I love those nuggets.

Those were great. Last question before we, we wrap up that I’m asking all my guests, what is a book that you think every entrepreneur or business owner should read and why? And know you can’t pick your book, cuz we already talked about Of course, of course.

Patti: That would, that would be tacky to do that. Oh my gosh, there’s so many of them.

Um, you know, I, I tend to run my business from a really optimistic, you know, I know they say hope is not a strategy, but I think optimism is a strategy. I think, you know, enjoying your work is a strategy is mm-hmm. Is a strategy. Um, one of my favorite books of all time is The Art of Possibility by Rosamund Stone, Xander and Ben Zander.

Okay. And I think Ben Zander was the conductor of. Mm. One of, one of the orchestras, I think in Boston. Boston, Phil. Oh, wow. Boston University. I don’t know. He, and he taught at, at the university’s up there, and his wife, who’s a co-author, is a psychotherapist. So, and he’s just this person that’s so filled to the, is very molecules with.

Possibilities of what’s possible. Where could we go with this? How could we think more positively? How could  we think bigger? How could we think more creatively? And the way he writes about how he taught his students and how he got them to get over this perfection thing that a lot of parents and teachers pound into us.

And instead he, like he said, he said to all his students, I’ve given you an A, and you’re the number one person in my, you know, you’re the number one student in the class, and I will tell your parents this. I will lie through my teeth, but I’ll tell them this. So just relax about that. But now you’re gonna write yourself a letter on what are you going to do to deserve an A in my class?

Mm. What do you want to do? What? What are you gonna try? How are you gonna be expand the bounds of your current? Abilities. And I just think that’s beautiful. And, and the metaphor that we can use in our businesses is where can we go beyond? And I think that helped me do this book. Like I am so proud of this book and how it turned out, it, it exceeded my expectations.

Yeah. You know, and that, and that sounds very egotistical, but really I had a great team and they helped me. They helped me. Like, Patty, we want this to be the dream book. We want this to be the book that you envision it to be. And they helped me. It was. I couldn’t, I don’t think I could have done it without reading that book a few years ago.

Lauren: Oh, that’s great. I’ve actually never heard of this book. So say the title one more time for listeners. 

Patti: The Art of Possibility and the copy that I have. Art Possibility got a yellow cover. Okay. Um, you can get it on Amazon. Love this. The Art of Possibility. Yeah. 

Lauren: So great. Okay, so beside going to the intentional networker.com, which we will link in the show notes as well as the book, how else would you like people to connect with you?

Patti: Um, I’m on, I’m on LinkedIn and I will connect with you if you send me a message and tell me why you want to be connected to me and it better not be to sell me something that, you know, again, you know, on this conversing and connecting thing. Yes, yes. It’s related to sales, but it’s not sales. It’s. It’s building a relationship.

It’s building. Mm-hmm. I, I have a lot of people who are in my network that I have never done business with, but I, if I like them and I understand what they do, I might refer them to somebody. So let’s just get that mm-hmm. Into the conversation too, is conversing and connection is not selling really. Um, LinkedIn?

Yeah. I’m on Facebook. I, you know, that’s, I reserve that mostly for my friends. I’m on Twitter reluctantly. Um, but, you know, go, go to my website, sign. Do the little subscription pop-up thing, you will get a choice of like four or five really great freebies, including free chapters outta my books. That appendix I was talking about some networking tips, and I think there’s an intention setting worksheet that’s in there too, and we’ll keep adding more, but then you’re on my list where you’ll start getting my blogs, which I promise will have more useful information and it’s a way for us to stay in touch.

Lauren: Yeah, they’re great. They’ve got great tips. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on to the show. It’s been such a pleasure, and I Oh, all mine.  All my, my pleasure. I know that this is gonna be very valuable for anyone who is struggling to make more rewarding conversations and connections, or who is trying to dip their toe in, so.

Mm. Thank you. 

Patti: Well, thank you for listening. For you listening, Lauren, cuz I surely did more of the talking than you did, but this is kind of an extra, you know, different kind of a case. And you know, thanks to everybody who listened because you know your time is valuable and you could have been off doing something else.

Lauren: So thank you for taking the time. Of course. Of course. All right, that’s it for this week’s episode. Thanks so much for listening in. If anything we shared sparked something in you, we’d love for you to share this episode with your friends. Also, I’d love to hear from you, so let’s connect, tag or DM me on Instagram at its Lauren Goldstein or LinkedIn or wherever you hang out on the Enter web.

Also don’t forget to subscribe, so you’re the first to get notified when our next episode is live and ready for your ears. Thanks again for listening. Until next time.

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